The Opportunity

[Mark17]

There is a void right now which creates a great opportunity for honest, reputable card dealers. It isn't a new concept either, but to my knowledge it hasn't been fully applied to baseball cards yet. It should be - it would go a long way towards restoring confidence with buyers, as well as being a way to benefit the honest card dealers who want to make the effort to gain and maintain trust in the hobby community.

It's the Letter of Authenticity concept. It's used all the time with game used items. Right now I've got a folder of LOAs for bats and jerseys in my collection, issued by Mears, John Taube (PSA/DNA), Tim Byington (HOF Bats), Kim Stigall (Ballpark Heroes), Jim Rantz (Twins minor league director) and a couple others. They describe what alterations have been done to the items, if any (cracked/repaired handles, other bat markings, whether jerseys are all original or partially restored, etc.) Most of these LOAs have pictures of the item, for positive identification.

The LOAs are only as good as the issuer, in terms of how well I trust their ability to assess an item accurately. In the above cases, I have very high regard for all those peoples' ability and integrity, and therefore, I have confidence buying from them, and so will the next owner of those items, should I decide to sell - because of those LOAs and the people who created them.

So, why don't the top card dealers begin issuing their own LOAs for the high-end cards they sell? Frankly I trust guys like Greg Morris, Chandy Greenholt, etc. much more than any TPG right now. For instance, the LOA could have high res scans of the card front and back, precise measurements as to size (and whether they fit within known tolerances), and whatever other details can be determined. For counterfeit detection, some equipment might be useful: a tool to measure card thickness accurately, black or ultra-violet lighting, microscope, high sensitivity scale to measure weight, and so on.) Not every card dealer would likely have/want/need all of those tools, but the more analysis the could do on the cards they sell, the higher the confidence level would be.

And after they have completed their analysis and created their LOA, they could, if they wanted, send it to a TPG for a second opinion and to get the card slabbed. Think of the boost in confidence that would give the buyer, to have their card authenticated by an honest dealer AND a TPG.... and the resulting value add that would bring.

Personally, I'd rather see the TPG concept just go away, and have the major dealers help return us to the grading scale the hobby grew up with: Poor, Fair, Good, Very Good, Excellent, Mint. And the in-betweens, like Good-Very Good and Excellent-Mint.

The big mistake the hobby is making right now is that authentication has been left in the hands of a few TPG, who have shown they aren't as reliable as we've wanted to believe. Wouldn't it be far better to put our authentication trust in the hands of people who have already earned our trust, and at the same time, give them a chance to further grow their good reputations and customer base?

Sure, it wouldn't prevent card doctors, but it would create some safe places where we could buy cards with added confidence, and have assurances that the confidence we have would carry with the card when we sell, and when the next guy sells, and so on. Because the high res pictures on that LOA would always need to match the card exactly, and that could be determined long into the future by anyone. The LOA issuers could keep them online, so people could verify the LOA they are receiving has not itself been altered.

I want to see the hobby become safer and stronger, and I want the good guys (honest dealers, honest collectors) to win.

[mq711]

Great idea, and they could add card size and centering dimensions to the certificate.

[buymycards]

This will be a great opportunity for the shady characters to cheat and scam their customers. The LOA's will be as reliable as a PSA 10 slab.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by buymycards

This will be a great opportunity for the shady characters to cheat and scam their customers. The LOA's will be as reliable as a PSA 10 slab.

An LOA from a reputable dealer will have value. A LOA from a shady character will have none. Same as with GU stuff.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

An LOA from a reputable dealer will have value. A LOA from a shady character will have none. Same as with GU stuff.

The problem I see is how would people know who the reputable dealer is. There is one seller on your list that the only way they sold something authentic was by accident.

[MULLINS5]

I agree that there should be more offered for higher end. I don't think, though, that PSA will offer more for the same price, and for the what they charge to authenticate and grade higher end I'd already expect a full report on the item.

I've read the high fees are for insurance reasons...but there's only about $800k in reserve for payouts. If that's the case, where's the money?

[Fballguy]

Do dealers want to be authenticators too?

[Mark17]

GU dealers aren't shy about describing their items to the best of their knowledge and ability - and putting it in writing in the form of an LOA. Why not for cards, too?

[1952boyntoncollector]

The purple stickers is all that is needed.....are the purple stickers thus far untouched in this trimming scandal?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Mark17

GU dealers aren't shy about describing their items to the best of their knowledge and ability - and putting it in writing in the form of an LOA. Why not for cards, too?

Cards would be much more difficult. It's easy to tell if a jersey has a sewn repair. It's apparently VERY difficult to tell if a card has been doctored. Even the paid "experts" can't tell.

[perezfan]

I thought the same at first. But after seeing a ton of very obvious "misses" lately, I'm starting to believe those graders knew exactly what they were doing.

As for the OP's concept, I think it has some merit, and could potentially help to strengthen the hobby. With so many of us griping and complaining about PSA's incompetence, at least he is offering an alternative solution to the unskilled and possibly corrupt TPG graders.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by perezfan

As for the OP's concept, I think it has some merit, and could potentially help to strengthen the hobby. With so many of us griping and complaining about PSA's incompetence, at least he is offering an alternative solution to the unskilled and possibly corrupt TPG graders.

There ARE a lot of very knowledgeable, good, honest card dealers in this hobby, many in this forum. I would certainly trust them to inspect a card I was buying, and their desire to be accurate to build their good reputation, more than somebody working for a TPG company.

For one thing, a dealer will know where his cards are coming from, and if he gets suspicious, he can stop buying from that person. For another, the dealer will be doing his best to correctly assess cards before adding them to his inventory in the first place. And lastly, if an altered card does slip through once in awhile (which would be inevitable,) it would be an honest miss.

Bottom line: when we buy cards other than in person, we want someone to tell us if the card is problematic. So what I'm saying is, wouldn't the logical people to do that be the people who are already highly respected card dealers? And all of us would have our own lists of most trusted sellers whom we'd be most comfortable buying from.

[oldjudge]

This is an insurance policy. If dealers or auction houses do this they will have to incorporate the cost of this guarantee (money back I assume) into their product. How much are you willing to pay for an authenticity guarantee from a dealer? My guess is that it will add 15-25% to the cost of everything you buy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The great virtue of a market economy is that if dealers see an opportunity for profit in this, they will do it. Like Jay, I'm skeptical, but we'll see.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Mark17

GU dealers aren't shy about describing their items to the best of their knowledge and ability - and putting it in writing in the form of an LOA. Why not for cards, too?

It's most likely a matter of scale. How many game used items does a dealer typically handle in a year? A couple hundred?

How many cards does a dealer handle in a year... PWCC usually has a few thousand at all times, running lets say 4000 a week is 208,000 a year. Lets say someone handles 1/10 the volume. That's still close to 21,000 items a year. So they'd have to write 57 letters a day.

I believe accuracy would suffer.

I do think that a TPG that gathered the same information could do very well. But it's a hard thing to try to get started, with three major competitors.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

This is an insurance policy. If dealers or auction houses do this they will have to incorporate the cost of this guarantee (money back I assume) into their product. How much are you willing to pay for an authenticity guarantee from a dealer? My guess is that it will add 15-25% to the cost of everything you buy.

How many problem TPG cards have been identified, and how much in claims have they paid out? In other words, what is this "insurance policy" you speak of?

The concept I am proposing could involve a disclaimer on the LOA that it is only an opinion. The producer of the LOA - the dealer - will have his reputation behind it, and a money-back guarantee, which reputable dealers already have.

And, for that matter, if a dealer has a better reputation than the TPG, and many do, they would save the money otherwise spent for that TPG service by doing it themselves.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The great virtue of a market economy is that if dealers see an opportunity for profit in this, they will do it. Like Jay, I'm skeptical, but we'll see.

Exactly. Solutions can often be found by going back to the basics of the free market.

Originally Posted by steve B

It's most likely a matter of scale. How many game used items does a dealer typically handle in a year? A couple hundred?

How many cards does a dealer handle in a year... PWCC usually has a few thousand at all times, running lets say 4000 a week is 208,000 a year. Lets say someone handles 1/10 the volume. That's still close to 21,000 items a year. So they'd have to write 57 letters a day.

A dealer might just want to offer LOAs on the higher-end stuff, and something much simpler on low-end cards.

Originally Posted by steve B

I do think that a TPG that gathered the same information could do very well. But it's a hard thing to try to get started, with three major competitors.

In theory, yes, but if the graders working at tables, grading card after card and just waiting for the weekend, miss an alteration, how much do they really care? The company cares, but does the guy who made the mistake have any vested interest? A dealer protecting his hard-earned good reputation sure does.

All good comments! Not saying I have the answer, just saying I trust some people more than others when it comes to assessing baseball cards.

[itslarry]

How would the general public know who to trust, just follow what some dudes on a forum say? Ive seen enough auctionbhouses gey called out on here, no wat id trust them.
The few people i do trust 100% (or as close as can), no eay they could do volume necessary.


Does coaches corner offer a coa?

[lowpopper]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

The purple stickers is all that is needed.....are the purple stickers thus far untouched in this trimming scandal?

Funny you ask because we have a few update
posts we will be making addressing some new
policies, assurances and business model. We
just hired someone to handle our social media
so you will hear from her/us in the very near
future.

And to answer your question, no unfortunately
Purple Label is not tangled in that mess.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

Funny you ask because we have a few update
posts we will be making addressing some new
policies, assurances and business model. We
just hired someone to handle our social media
so you will hear from her/us in the very near
future.

And to answer your question, no unfortunately
Purple Label is not tangled in that mess.

That is a strange point of view. Don't worry though you have the type of friends that can change that.

I am sure that was a typo and I am just being a smart a$$ so don't take it personal.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Mark17

How many problem TPG cards have been identified, and how much in claims have they paid out? In other words, what is this "insurance policy" you speak of?

The concept I am proposing could involve a disclaimer on the LOA that it is only an opinion. The producer of the LOA - the dealer - will have his reputation behind it, and a money-back guarantee, which reputable dealers already have.

And, for that matter, if a dealer has a better reputation than the TPG, and many do, they would save the money otherwise spent for that TPG service by doing it themselves.


Exactly. Solutions can often be found by going back to the basics of the free market.



A dealer might just want to offer LOAs on the higher-end stuff, and something much simpler on low-end cards.



In theory, yes, but if the graders working at tables, grading card after card and just waiting for the weekend, miss an alteration, how much do they really care? The company cares, but does the guy who made the mistake have any vested interest? A dealer protecting his hard-earned good reputation sure does.

All good comments! Not saying I have the answer, just saying I trust some people more than others when it comes to assessing baseball cards.

If you don’t think the dealers would honor their guarantee then why would you want one? The only auctioneer who I ever saw say a card was overgraded was Rob Lifson. He would be the only person whose opinion I would trust. Otherwise, I think dealers are either not knowledgeable enough or conflicted or both.

[Promethius88]

Tommy:
Let's think about this for a sec, Ted, why do they put a guarantee on a box? Hmm, very interesting.

Ted:
I'm listening.

Tommy:
Here's how I see it. A guy puts a guarantee on the box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.

Ted:
Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy:
'Course it does. Ya think if you leave that box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter.

Ted:
What's your point?

Tommy:
The point is, how do you know the Guarantee Fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy, but we're not buying it. Next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up, I seen it a hundred times.

Ted:
But why do they put a guarantee on the box then?

Tommy:
Because they know all they solda ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is. Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for right now, for your sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me.

Ted:
Hmm. Okay, I'll buy from you.

[lowpopper]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That is a strange point of view. Don't worry though you have the type of friends that can change that.

I am sure that was a typo and I am just being a smart a$$ so don't take it personal.

Not a typo...just sorry I could not feed the public's ferocious appetite for scandal

On a serious note, we will be querying the public to find out exactly
what we can do to help the hobby. We already have a few things in
motion but we still want to hear directly from the people.

This is an important thread. There is definitely a void that Purple Label
can help fill.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Mark17

There is a void right now which creates a great opportunity for honest, reputable card dealers. It isn't a new concept either, but to my knowledge it hasn't been fully applied to baseball cards yet. It should be - it would go a long way towards restoring confidence with buyers, as well as being a way to benefit the honest card dealers who want to make the effort to gain and maintain trust in the hobby community.

It's the Letter of Authenticity concept. It's used all the time with game used items. Right now I've got a folder of LOAs for bats and jerseys in my collection, issued by Mears, John Taube (PSA/DNA), Tim Byington (HOF Bats), Kim Stigall (Ballpark Heroes), Jim Rantz (Twins minor league director) and a couple others. They describe what alterations have been done to the items, if any (cracked/repaired handles, other bat markings, whether jerseys are all original or partially restored, etc.) Most of these LOAs have pictures of the item, for positive identification.

The LOAs are only as good as the issuer, in terms of how well I trust their ability to assess an item accurately. In the above cases, I have very high regard for all those peoples' ability and integrity, and therefore, I have confidence buying from them, and so will the next owner of those items, should I decide to sell - because of those LOAs and the people who created them.

So, why don't the top card dealers begin issuing their own LOAs for the high-end cards they sell? Frankly I trust guys like Greg Morris, Chandy Greenholt, etc. much more than any TPG right now. For instance, the LOA could have high res scans of the card front and back, precise measurements as to size (and whether they fit within known tolerances), and whatever other details can be determined. For counterfeit detection, some equipment might be useful: a tool to measure card thickness accurately, black or ultra-violet lighting, microscope, high sensitivity scale to measure weight, and so on.) Not every card dealer would likely have/want/need all of those tools, but the more analysis the could do on the cards they sell, the higher the confidence level would be.

And after they have completed their analysis and created their LOA, they could, if they wanted, send it to a TPG for a second opinion and to get the card slabbed. Think of the boost in confidence that would give the buyer, to have their card authenticated by an honest dealer AND a TPG.... and the resulting value add that would bring.

Personally, I'd rather see the TPG concept just go away, and have the major dealers help return us to the grading scale the hobby grew up with: Poor, Fair, Good, Very Good, Excellent, Mint. And the in-betweens, like Good-Very Good and Excellent-Mint.

The big mistake the hobby is making right now is that authentication has been left in the hands of a few TPG, who have shown they aren't as reliable as we've wanted to believe. Wouldn't it be far better to put our authentication trust in the hands of people who have already earned our trust, and at the same time, give them a chance to further grow their good reputations and customer base?

Sure, it wouldn't prevent card doctors, but it would create some safe places where we could buy cards with added confidence, and have assurances that the confidence we have would carry with the card when we sell, and when the next guy sells, and so on. Because the high res pictures on that LOA would always need to match the card exactly, and that could be determined long into the future by anyone. The LOA issuers could keep them online, so people could verify the LOA they are receiving has not itself been altered.

I want to see the hobby become safer and stronger, and I want the good guys (honest dealers, honest collectors) to win.

Who is going to decide who the top dealers are? Not all of them are squeaky clean...

What this hobby needs is an association of dues paying dealers that are vetted by a panel of long time reputable dealers that can provide an endorsement without playing politics...there would need to be pre-requisites for membership for both old time and new dealers and a periodic re-vetting of members to eliminate folks who may have "strayed off the path."

Then the dealer would have the right to issue an "association approved" LOA with security features and a unique number that can be tracked through the associations website...to start with...

This sort of set-up could work...

[steve B]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Who is going to decide who the top dealers are? Not all of them are squeaky clean...

What this hobby needs is an association of dues paying dealers that are vetted by a panel of long time reputable dealers that can provide an endorsement without playing politics...there would need to be pre-requisites for membership for both old time and new dealers and a periodic re-vetting of members to eliminate folks who may have "strayed off the path."

Then the dealer would have the right to issue an "association approved" LOA with security features and a unique number that can be tracked through the associations website...to start with...

This sort of set-up could work...

In stamps that's sort of the setup. There are a couple national organizations, US philatelic society, and the American Stamp Dealer Association. The first is more like a national club, and offers authentication, as well as a code of conduct, running a research library, publishing a magazine and probably a few other functions. The second is a dealer organization that also has a code of conduct, and publicizes shows etc as well as having a magazine with articles.
There are also two other authenticators who also grade The Philatelic foundation, and PSE (No relation to collectors universe, but they did try slabbing stamps, which didn't really gain much acceptance)

None of that means that all the members are reliable or even honest, but it does filter out some of the worse ones.
TPG/authentication in that hobby has tiered pricing, but not tiered turnaround times. It takes them as long as it takes to be sure something is what it's claimed to be.

PF did have a scandal in the 1980's, where someone inside with access to the computer system let bad stuff get certificates for a couple dealer he was friends with. They dealt with it decisively, but it took a while to earn back some respect.

There have been a few tries at starting a national card organization, but none have gained much traction.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Mark17

In theory, yes, but if the graders working at tables, grading card after card and just waiting for the weekend, miss an alteration, how much do they really care? The company cares, but does the guy who made the mistake have any vested interest? A dealer protecting his hard-earned good reputation sure does.

All good comments! Not saying I have the answer, just saying I trust some people more than others when it comes to assessing baseball cards.

In Stamps, the people doing the authentication/grading are experts, and are often dealers. They generally specialize in a particular area.
There is also some private expertization by respected dealers, although the most recent one in the US died a few years ago. He offered a really bare bones service, $5 for any stamp, and the certificate was a small printed piece of paper with the minimum required info.

In other countries the expertizers are experts in a narrow area, and may be dealers. They don't really do grading. The culture varies from one country to the next. At least once, the person considered to be THE expert on a single issue has turned out to also be the person forging the overprints. So all type II or ones of a particular color are now known to be fake, and he approved all of them - Of course he made them, so...

Overall, I think that having a service that's actually reliable, and that takes the time and is transparent about the information - No simple "A", but an "A" with a detailed explanation. is the way to go. I've debated giving it a try, but I'm very slow and hopelessly disorganized. I figure it would take a good deal of money and at least 3-4 people to even get started. And the chance of success compared to PSA where the registry is well developed and active is very small.
I'd have a registry that accepted cards from other graders, with varying weights. That's pretty much the only way I can see to make any headway in the registry area.

[timn1]

the OP is offering a serious idea for a serious problem. Who knows whether it is feasible, but I for one would like to see threads like this remain serious rather than become yet more occasions for people to demonstrate how clever and cynical they are-

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Tommy:
Let's think about this for a sec, Ted, why do they put a guarantee on a box? Hmm, very interesting.

Ted:
I'm listening.

Tommy:
Here's how I see it. A guy puts a guarantee on the box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.

Ted:
Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy:
'Course it does. Ya think if you leave that box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter.

Ted:
What's your point?

Tommy:
The point is, how do you know the Guarantee Fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy, but we're not buying it. Next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up, I seen it a hundred times.

Ted:
But why do they put a guarantee on the box then?

Tommy:
Because they know all they solda ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is. Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for right now, for your sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me.

Ted:
Hmm. Okay, I'll buy from you.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by timn1

the OP is offering a serious idea for a serious problem. Who knows whether it is feasible, but I for one would like to see threads like this remain serious rather than become yet more occasions for people to demonstrate how clever and cynical they are-

Personally, I think TOMMYBOY hit it right square on the head. PSA's guarantee is horsesh** and this is a good example.

Much better than the car analogies so many like to throw around. AND IT's funny.

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by timn1

the OP is offering a serious idea for a serious problem. Who knows whether it is feasible, but I for one would like to see threads like this remain serious rather than become yet more occasions for people to demonstrate how clever and cynical they are-

Wasn't meant to be "clever" or "cynical". This exchange could be looked at in a couple different ways. Is the person giving the guarantee PSA or is it the group of "trusted" card dealers? Obviously Chuck sees it as PSA, and that's fine, but really the same could be said if the hobby decides to elevate certain sellers to this "elite" status just so it makes us all feel better about our buying again.
I believe that trusted dealers that have been around for a long time are just that because they don't attempt to screw people or get too greedy. If those are the dealers you are comfortable buying from....buy from them. The problems are...
A. There are a ton of good dealers or collectors/part time dealers that are good, honest, hardworking people and you can trust them til the cows come home. Those folks can't have a say or be trusted anymore?
B. I see very little chance that a dealer is going to want to, much less have the time to scrutinize every single card that goes thru their hands, then guarantee what they are selling is 100% legit with a money back guarantee. Again, we don't know how detectable this work is that's being done. Yes, an honest dealer will back up his/her items but what are we going to do, funnel every single card thru just this group?
C. Conflict of interest. Unless a dealer is willing to give up buying/selling, there would always be that possibility for conflict of interest. Yes, they are honest and have been for years. But we have all seen what dangling a potential windfall in front of faces has done to good people in the past.

I don't have the answers and nobody else does at this point either. I get that there are a lot of problems and the blame falls in many laps. I think all the information needs to come out, the dust has to settle, cooler heads have to prevail. Then, and only then can we come up with some changes that are going to be positive and lasting.
Personally, I can't believe the hate and nastiness that I have seen posted all over just due to differing opinions. I remember a time when people could have different opinions and not be blasted for them. I think that might have been a time when we actually respected each other....before the internet.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

Not a typo...just sorry I could not feed the public's ferocious appetite for scandal

On a serious note, we will be querying the public to find out exactly
what we can do to help the hobby. We already have a few things in
motion but we still want to hear directly from the people.

This is an important thread. There is definitely a void that Purple Label
can help fill.

I think your label can be used potentially on cards that were not part of these altered card issue, that your company would make an effort to check prior sales on cards and boards to see there wasnt an altered card upgrade....cant guarantee as new cards keep coming up but can at least attest of what was searched (ie. past sale of card last 10 years from X auction houses and outed serial numbers/pictures )

[packs]

If I were a dealer I'd be highly skeptical of issuing any type of LOA. There isn't a single dealer in the country who opened a pack of Piedmont Cigarettes and fished out the T206 they're selling, so what good is their LOA? Wouldn't an LOA only be good for the amount of time the dealer owned the card? In the world of flipping, that LOA might only cover the last few days of a card's history.

[steve B]

So you're saying that nobody can detect alterations?

[packs]

I didn't say that. I said an LOA from a dealer who owned a card for a limited amount of time wouldn't instill confidence about the rest of the card's history.

You have to pick your battles with these things. The slab was supposed to accomplish the same sense of security as the LOA discussed, therefore the LOA can be corrupted in the same way.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

So you're saying that nobody can detect alterations?

Obviously PSA employees can't. Still wondering how someone can be that incompetent and keep their job.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think Packs' point is that a dealer can't give you an LOA that says anything about provenance, so all it would be doing is adding a fourth-party (in the case of a slab) opinion about authenticity and is that really worth anything?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think Packs' point is that a dealer can't give you an LOA that says anything about provenance, so all it would be doing is adding a fourth-party (in the case of a slab) opinion about authenticity and is that really worth anything?

And that falls back on reputation, as it generally does in all fields. And that requires some lengthy period of being right far more consistently than PSA. And handling problems much better. If other hobbies can manage it, I'm sure ours can, I just don't think it's possible to guess when that might happen.

And that's coming from a guy who would deliberately make the rounds of the dealers who knew barely anything hunting a "find" which for me at the time could be a couple P-F 48 leaf commons. A direct quote from that dealer - "They aren't in Beckett, so they aren't worth anything"

[packs]

I've said it before but the issue with reputation is that it can change. No one single person is infallible, and no one single person is immune from stresses beyond their control. If a reputable dealer finds himself in financial straits, I don't know that anyone can say for certain that the dealer wouldn't be tempted to make a little money for themselves based on what was a stellar reputation.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

I've said it before but the issue with reputation is that it can change. No one single person is infallible, and no one single person is immune from stresses beyond their control. If a reputable dealer finds himself in financial straits, I don't know that anyone can say for certain that the dealer wouldn't be tempted to make a little money for themselves based on what was a stellar reputation.

So, with that assumption, we can't really trust anybody (including ourselves.) That's not the way I choose to navigate through life.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Mark17

So, with that assumption, we can't really trust anybody (including ourselves.) That's not the way I choose to navigate through life.

I don't think that kind of philosophy needs to permeate all aspects of your life. This is business whether you see it as one or not. Third party companies (in their intended roles) are meant to be an independent third party who assesses your card without bias. Third party graders are supposed to have no interest in the cards that pass through their hands aside from assessing their strengths and authenticity. A single person is prone to bias and prone to finding themselves in situations where they may be willing to bend the rules for personal gain (like, say, grading their own cards and fencing them through someone else).

It has happened many times in our hobby.