Poll: response to recent PWCC revelations

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I am certainly not dumb. You don't get to the position in life that I am at and be dumb.

No trolling. I just think you guys are fooling yourselves if somehow boycotting PWCC is going to save you.

If PWCC goes down the consignments will flow elsewhere and the process starts all over.

Seems like you don't care at all. So why are you even in these threads? To tell everyone there is fraud in the hobby and that you couldn't care less.

KthanksBye

[sportscardtheory]

Guy's got a huge PSA collection. No wonder he's running shadow interference/deflection. Many of the nay-sayers are just people with huge investments in PSA/BGS, have spent a ton with PWCC and are just here to protect their investments.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Guy's got a huge PSA collection. No wonder he's running shadow interference/deflection.

Yes I do have a huge PSA collection.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't agree with Dave obviously on some of this but the attacks on him are unfair. He's a good man in my opinion. His point of view is that fraud is pervasive so if you want to keep collecting at all, it isn't rational just to selectively cut off the fraudster of the day, you have to be careful everywhere. I get that.

[sportscardtheory]

By telling us he's laughing at us for having principles? Great guy.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

By telling us he's laughing at us for having principles? Great guy.

I do find it funny how people respond to moments of crisis.

I laughed at the idiots who burned Nike apparel and the idiots who threw away expensive razor blades too.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't agree with Dave obviously on some of this but the attacks on him are unfair. He's a good man in my opinion. His point of view is that fraud is pervasive so if you want to keep collecting at all, it isn't rational just to selectively cut off the fraudster of the day, you have to be careful everywhere. I get that.

Thanks Peter.

This is exactly what I am getting at.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't agree with Dave obviously on some of this but the attacks on him are unfair. He's a good man in my opinion. His point of view is that fraud is pervasive so if you want to keep collecting at all, it isn't rational just to selectively cut off the fraudster of the day, you have to be careful everywhere. I get that.

I get that he's smart, and that he is entitled to his beliefs, based on his huge investment in PSA. If that's where/how you want to spend your money, it's all good. It is afterall HIS money.

But I would hardly label PWCC as "the fraudster of the day". Fraudster of the decade is certainly a more accurate moniker. The breadth of deception documented on the BO threads dwarfs anything else we've seen. And that's just focused on the alterations... the shill bidding (and PWCC's justification of doing so) is a whole different subject.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I get that he's smart, and that he is entitled to his beliefs, based on his huge investment in PSA. If that's where/how you want to spend your money, it's all good. It is afterall HIS money.

But I would hardly label PWCC as "the fraudster of the day". Fraudster of the decade is certainly a more accurate moniker. The breadth of deception documented on the BO threads dwarfs anything else we've seen. And that's just focused on the alterations... the shill bidding (and PWCC's justification of doing so) is a whole different subject.

But it doesn't dwarf everything else, it just appears that way based on the way the search is geared to find whitman111 and pwcc cards. That's where the easy paper trail is. I hardly need to defend my anti-PWCC credentials, but let's not kid ourselves that this is the only poisonous branch of the tree or whatever the metaphor is.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

But it doesn't dwarf everything else, it just appears that way based on the way the search is geared to find whitman111 and pwcc cards. That's where the easy paper trail is. I hardly need to defend my anti-PWCC credentials, but let's not kid ourselves that this is the only poisonous branch of the tree or whatever the metaphor is.

Peter...
Your vast contributions to this topic and this forum are much appreciated, and you are far more diplomatic than most of us will ever be...

If the PWCC evidence of corruption doesn't dwarf anything else we've seen, I honestly cannot think of what beats it. Maybe Operation Bullpen, where the FBI exposed the Marino Family?

But this case isn't nearly put to bed! On BO, they are continuing to unearth new examples every day, with no end currently in sight.... Often to the tune of 5-figures PER CARD. The Marinos were creating fake Mantles that sold for a couple hundred bucks each. That's chump change compared to what's being exposed as we speak.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Peter...
Your vast contributions to this topic and this forum are much appreciated, and you are far more diplomatic than most of us will ever be...

If the PWCC evidence of corruption doesn't dwarf anything else we've seen, I honestly cannot think of what beats it. Maybe Operation Bullpen, where the FBI exposed the Marino Family?

But this case isn't nearly put to bed! On BO, they are continuing to unearth new examples every day, with no end currently in sight.... Often to the tune of 5-figures PER CARD. The Marinos were creating fake Mantles that sold for a couple hundred bucks each. That's chump change compared to what's being exposed as we speak.

In terms of the EVIDENCE that has been outed, yes, for sure. But that's a different question than the corruption itself. My opinion is that there are AHs who have sold vast amounts of very high dollar altered cards that could easily compete with PWCC. But the ability to track those does not exist absent certs from the TPGs going back to 1991. I think what you're seeing now in all its glory is mostly the low-hanging fruit.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Seems like you don't care at all. So why are you even in these threads? To tell everyone there is fraud in the hobby and that you couldn't care less.

KthanksBye

To participate just like you. It seems the only opinion that is allowed is I won't do business with PWCC.

I am one of the collectors who simply will look at all cards that come for sale.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

To participate just like you. It seems the only opinion that is allowed is I won't do business with PWCC.

I am one of the collectors who simply will look at all cards that come for sale.

Oh lord. As if you aren't allowed your opinions. You are the one "laughing" at people for standing up for what they believe in. Remember when I said "You do you". I do.

[sportscardtheory]

Does anyone else see that this guy is essentially saying ignore people who commit fraud, just buy cards anyway. lol Great guy seems legit. A I expected to take this seriously?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Does anyone else see that this guy is essentially saying ignore people who commit fraud, just buy cards anyway. lol

If you spend all your time trying to tip toe around every shady hobby character, you’re not going to enjoy the hobby.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Does anyone else see that this guy is essentially saying ignore people who commit fraud, just buy cards anyway. lol Great guy seems legit. A I expected to take this seriously?

It has never been a secret in the hobby in my opinion that cards have been worked on. To what degree is debatable and to what degree collectors are concerned is debatable.

I don't pretend to know what is right I just know that cards change hands outside of PWCC that could just as easily change hands through them.

There is no magic formula to completely avoid fraud in the sports collectibles hobby. It exists. You do the best you can.

Everyone is at different point in their collection. It is easier for someone with few graded cards to say the hell with the hobby. I have a lot so naturally I hope the hobby moves forward. I just believe that there is no perfect way to completely insulate yourself from issues and cutting off the main source of highly collected trading cards is a lot tougher than many think.

[BLongley]

Forbes article...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rayglie.../#5439c3bf2152