1952 Bowman Stan Musial PSA 10 on eBay :o

[Promethius88]

What is really being overlooked here, imo, is how good is the work that is being done? Nobody has answered this question no matter how many times I have asked it. It is pretty easy, in most cases, from what I have seen to tell the alterations from before and after pics. But what about cards that have never been previously holdered or cards that have never been sold online to have an electronic footprint? Is the work so good that it can't be reasonably detected by the advanced collector or by TPG's? I'm not interested in another response that "Oh the TPG's are the professionals and should be able to....". Yeah, I get that, but would this work be undetectable by 99.9% of people without before and after pics??

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

What is really being overlooked here, imo, is how good is the work that is being done? Nobody has answered this question no matter how many times I have asked it. It is pretty easy, in most cases, from what I have seen to tell the alterations from before and after pics. But what about cards that have never been previously holdered or cards that have never been sold online to have an electronic footprint? Is the work so good that it can't be reasonably detected by the advanced collector or by TPG's? I'm not interested in another response that "Oh the TPG's are the professionals and should be able to....". Yeah, I get that, but would this work be undetectable by 99.9% of people without before and after pics??

And it's a good question. I've never seen one of the cards in question in person.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

What is really being overlooked here, imo, is how good is the work that is being done? Nobody has answered this question no matter how many times I have asked it. It is pretty easy, in most cases, from what I have seen to tell the alterations from before and after pics. But what about cards that have never been previously holdered or cards that have never been sold online to have an electronic footprint? Is the work so good that it can't be reasonably detected by the advanced collector or by TPG's? I'm not interested in another response that "Oh the TPG's are the professionals and should be able to....". Yeah, I get that, but would this work be undetectable by 99.9% of people without before and after pics??

I have posted several times that in my opinion, at least some of the work is very very difficult to detect given the level of review. This isn't crime lab review by any means.

[oldjudge]

Peter- First, I think grading has gotten marginally more accurate over time. I also think that because of the current situation, really a wake up call, PSA, if they are smart, will try to upgrade their procedures. I know if I was running the company that is what I would be doing. It's a public company. If management doesn't do this the board ought to step in and find management who will.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter- First, I think grading has gotten marginally more accurate over time. I also think that because of the current situation, really a wake up call, PSA, if they are smart, will try to upgrade their procedures. I know if I was running the company that is what I would be doing. It's a public company. If management doesn't do this the board ought to step in and find management who will.

I think their grading may have improved, but I have no confidence that their authentication has. Big difference. Their corporate culture over the years does not give me much confidence that they will do anything more than close ranks, maintain their usual secrecy, do damage control, and try to shift blame and responsibility to others. And above all else, minimize by whatever means necessary the hit to that guarantee. So far their response has been a page out of that playbook. We will see and I hope you are right.