PSA Response from President Steve Sloan

[steve B]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

and I should add that you can’t take the altered population and divide by 30 million Cards graded. That includes resubmits, cards valued under $100, YuGiOh, badly damaged, ungradeable, etc. The true population for comparison is probably closer to 2-5 million.

You don't think YuGiOh cards are being altered? I bet some magic cards are. Turning a beta into an alpha would be really easy.

[swarmee]

PSA's claim that they catch a certain percentage will also include the number of cards that are not actually altered or minsize that they declare. These are usually less important because if they aren't actually altered, they get slabbed the next time submitted.
Alpha errors versus beta errors. False positives vs. False negatives.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by steve B

You don't think YuGiOh cards are being altered? I bet some magic cards are. Turning a beta into an alpha would be really easy.

Pokemon are definitely being counterfeited. Magic Alpha/Beta/antiquities/Arabian nights/legends are more likely retouched like 1971 Topps black borders rather than being die cut down from Beta corners to Alpha corners.
That would be a huge rabbit hole that hasn't been explored yet.

[oldjudge]

Corey is spot on with his comments. How could any rational person have not questioned the number of Mint and Gem Mint vintage cards? Suspended disbelief gets you into trouble. The current scandals involve cards and autographs. I’d be willing to bet that there is a similar scandal just around the corner on game used uniforms. It’s amazing to me that these “great” uniforms keep popping up, and then they almost always relate to a significant moment in that player’s career. How is that determined—photo matching. I think it would be really interesting if a study was done as to how accurate photo matching is. My guess is that it is no more accurate than card grading, and possibly as inaccurate as autograph grading.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Corey is spot on with his comments. How could any rational person have not questioned the number of Mint and Gem Mint vintage cards? Suspended disbelief gets you into trouble. The current scandals involve cards and autographs. I’d be willing to bet that there is a similar scandal just around the corner on game used uniforms. It’s amazing to me that these “great” uniforms keep popping up, and then they almost always relate to a significant moment in that player’s career. How is that determined—photo matching. I think it would be really interesting if a study was done as to how accurate photo matching is. My guess is that it is no more accurate than card grading, and possibly as inaccurate as autograph grading.

What percentage of the single signed Babe Ruth balls were actually signed by Babe Ruth? I started to wonder that when it seemed every auction had several if not more.

[oldjudge]

He was a prolific singer, but not that prolific.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

He was a prolific singer, but not that prolific.

It could be urban legend, but I seem to recall reading that James Spence once was asked in litigation whether Ruth wrote left handed or right handed and he didn't know.

In any event, the number of single signed Ruths I was seeing when I started to review auction catalogs just struck me as improbable.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

He was a prolific singer, but not that prolific.

Was he a tenor, baritone, or bass?

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Was he a tenor, baritone, or bass?

God love spell check

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

He was a prolific singer, but not that prolific.

I don't think he was as prolific at singing as he was signing. Though I am sure when he tied one on he might have done a few karaokes.

As for PSA's response I think it was expected. They have lawyers and are a public company.

.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't think he was as prolific at singing as he was signing. Though I am sure when he tied one on he might have done a few karaokes.

As for PSA's response I think it was expected. They have lawyers and are a public company.

.

More like rap...Sort of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0C5zZnYR8w

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What percentage of the single signed Babe Ruth balls were actually signed by Babe Ruth? I started to wonder that when it seemed every auction had several if not more.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Corey is spot on with his comments. How could any rational person have not questioned the number of Mint and Gem Mint vintage cards? Suspended disbelief gets you into trouble. .

When the scandal with the autographed T206s and others broke a couple months ago, my reaction was one of non-surprise. Waaaaaaaaay too many cards turning up signed from an era when such things simply weren't done.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Pokemon are definitely being counterfeited. Magic Alpha/Beta/antiquities/Arabian nights/legends are more likely retouched like 1971 Topps black borders rather than being die cut down from Beta corners to Alpha corners.
That would be a huge rabbit hole that hasn't been explored yet.

I'm trying to remember which ones it was, I'm thinking YuGiOh, but Upper deck got caught counterfeiting cards they were producing. Fake foils turned up in retail repacks from treat? Or some other repacker. When That company was asked where they got the fake cards from they said they'd come from UD, who were printing the real ones.

[Bored5000]

Here is the response from PWCC that I received about a Moser card I purchased that was probably cleaned but not trimmed:

"Thank you or reaching out to us about this card. At this time we are working to address those cards which have been trimmed, recolored, have corners built up, etc. The card you purchased is not obviously altered and we don’t have enough evidence to determine yet that it is. Please be patient while we work through the clearly altered cards; if there are any issues with any of your past purchases we promise we will get to you soon. Thank you for your assistance on this.

​
Thank you!

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Marketplace"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Here is the response from PWCC that I received about a Moser card I purchased that was probably cleaned but not altered:

"Thank you or reaching out to us about this card. At this time we are working to address those cards which have been trimmed, recolored, have corners built up, etc. The card you purchased is not obviously altered and we don’t have enough evidence to determine yet that it is. Please be patient while we work through the clearly altered cards; if there are any issues with any of your past purchases we promise we will get to you soon. Thank you for your assistance on this.

​
Thank you!

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Marketplace"

As the old standard goes, "She didn't say yes, she didn't say no."

[Exhibitman]

Now that's a dumb response: admit there are massive problems but that yours is less of one than the worst. Love to hear her answer under oath as to which trimmed, altered, rebuilt, etc. cards she meant. How massive a pile must there be to make it impossible for PWCC even to address your card?

Just curious: Which hand did she use?