How do you think it all shakes out

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't mean to be rude not doing a full reply but I just don't want to repeat and debate the same things I've said before. What you describe is classic fraud.

I don’t see it, counselor. Nice try.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

i don’t see it, counselor. Nice try.

lol

[1880nonsports]

that people believe PSA will be paying out any kind of significant monies. They will fight to the death on a card by card basis with them in a staring role as the fox surrounded by nothing but the hens. Add - or more appropriately subtract - many cards from the conversation as well whose owners won't know about or participate in any kind of cleansing "process". PSA will go on forever...……..
I don't collect modern graded cards so I know nothing about BVG or their previous/current iterations or Black label designations.
SGC has been my grader of choice. I always spoke to them about the mistake they made going into autographs while their own house (core business) wasn't in order. They will have to be aggressive to increase their market share as they are mostly called upon to grade vintage cards.
Overall I think the hobby in general NEEDS grading companies. I hope they will continue to improve their methods - but with a likely minute or less to make determinations about grade and authenticity by someone who may not be a seasoned veteran card grader - along with the increasing skill sets and technology available to card doctors - graded (and raw) card collectors need to realize the inherent limitations of their own eyes and those of the TPG's even with more sophisticated equipment.
I've known of card doctoring and of a doctor or two operating under the radar since I got in the hobby nearly 30 years ago including one or two of the people that have been mentioned in the many threads here and on a couple of other sites I was linked to from here. I remember Gary and a partner from over 25 years ago. No personal knowledge of his guilt or innocence. Always going to be people in this world trying to separate one from their money without a legitimate means. That shit will go on forever - and the devil takes many forms. I try and be an informed consumer but there's only so far I will go. Like at the poker table I get angry at the idiot that always seems to play with his 18%. I go into the situation with my eyes open - occasional he will snap me but I am an educated consumer :-) All grades can be suspect of manipulation BUT I have cut the odds down NOT buying very high grade cards for my sets, instead settling for very-good to excellent overall. I think there should only be 4 grades - all of which incorporate not only technical focus but aesthetics - determined by LOOKING AT THE FREAKING CARD! :-) That's for another day.
PWCC - or whatever their acronym is. Man they are in the news here a LOT! It all seems like smoke and mirrors. Certainly they SEEM complicit beyond the casual. I think they will stall and deflect until they are forced into some accelerated response by whatever PSA and eBay does as surely they don't dictate to either despite all the money they bring in. They are MONSTER sellers. Maybe pwcc just won't continue at the crazy growth levels of the past 10 (?) years.
As for the overall hobby - yesh. Hate this shit but like the direction of the country I love - I have but little impact other than looking at it in the light of day along with others and hoping as they see the same light we can get increasingly more people to see it and bring pressure to bear for change. One can hope can't they?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

that people believe PSA will be paying out any kind of significant monies. They will fight to the death on a card by card basis with them in a staring role as the fox surrounded by nothing but the hens.

They call themselves (and charge a fee as) authenticators. If suddenly many cards that passed through their hands are proven to be altered, how can they not be accountable?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

They call themselves (and charge a fee as) authenticators. If suddenly many cards that passed through their hands are proven to be altered, how can they not be accountable?

Because they almost uniformly refuse to pay despite their easily proven liability. They dare you to sue and most won’t. It’s almost unheard of to find a time that PSA has ever honored their guarantee without having its arm twisted.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Because they almost uniformly refuse to pay despite their easily proven liability. They dare you to sue and most won’t. It’s almost unheard of to find a time that PSA has ever honored their guarantee without having its arm twisted.

That's unfortunate. Sounds like an insurance company.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That's unfortunate. Sounds like an insurance company.

Shit. We agree again. Suing carriers is what I do.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

They call themselves (and charge a fee as) authenticators. If suddenly many cards that passed through their hands are proven to be altered, how can they not be accountable?

Because they’re only rendering a opinion on said card. It’s said but seems lock tight proof...