How do you think it all shakes out

[swarmee]

I'll guess the opposite end.

Law enforcement gets really involved. There are ALREADY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS of exposed cards by OVER 10 ALTERERS all using PWCC to launder their goods, plus the SSI company in Dallas.

PSA gets spun off from CLCT and is purchased. They take the SGC route and remove the guarantee for any cards prior to the buyout. Any claims under the current grade guarantee not covered will be subject to a class-action lawsuit, leading to a bankruptcy restructuring. All previously graded cards in the registry need to be reholdered/re-evaluated by new ownership to go back in the registry. PSA can survive, IMO, but if it does, it has to play this by the book and report to the public all known scammers, the cert numbers of questionable cards, and decertify them from the pop report/registry. If they don't, they lose the customer's confidence. Take the 1952 Topps Look-N-See. How can anyone trust that set registry anymore? 1953 Parkhurst? How many T206s has Gary worked/submitted? Without transparency in their process (opposite of the promised "internal investigation"), their big spenders SHOULD LOSE FAITH and should know that their registry competitors are gaining on them by fraud.

How does PSA continue to charge per card value, if their Grade Guarantee has no teeth? Beckett doesn't come with a promise, only expectation, but charges way less for hundred thousand dollar cards than PSA does. Is the Set Registry really still worth all the grading fees? Is public trust shattered?

Beckett customers, mostly younger and more in tune with the internet, realize there's no grade guarantee with their cards. They get together and file a class-action lawsuit, citing gross negligence. (Or is that a criminal crime? I'm not a lawyer) Beckett's already got major issues with their ownership group and leadership, and should lose the trust of the marketplace. Once the top cards stop dropping in price, it may be rapid. BGS Black Labels and Pristines will no longer be the crown jewels they used to be. Since they seem to have unfair grading practices (see the 100+ page thread at blowout), they could be criminally liable for fraud.

PWCC goes out of business. It just has to. Jail time for Brent is the only thing that makes sense. Surely there will be someone to fill the void. But PWCC is the enabler of all these "isolated bad actors."

The market corrects just like we were in a recession; I envision a 40% chop at the top. I think the low-mid end stays fairly constant, but the exponential growth curve for PSA 8/9/10 in vintage cards takes a beating. If it doesn't, PSA just goes about its business and Moser keeps destroying cardboard pictures with base ball men on them.

The watchdogs are no longer lazy, no longer have a defeatist attitude, no longer willing to sit on the sidelines and not rock the boat. And we're willing to push this as long as it takes to right the hobby. Like I said, I've already called in the FDLE to investigate the entire situation. I know others have contact their states. This will not be confined to the few, the proud, the too invested to speak up and do the right thing.

[T_Hamilton]

has anyone reached out to any of the reporters who cover the hobby?

David Seideman from Forbes is always talking to PWCC and writing articles on the hobby.

One just needs to go through PWCC's "In the news" section to see who the interested journalists are...

[swarmee]

Darren Rovell and Keith Olberman have tweeted about it. Because that's a thing.

The Oregonian wrote a pretty good story on it that was getting shared a bit. Beckett will not write an article on it, because it would be hypocritical.

PSA's SMR deserves to. I'll keep suggesting it to Mr. Sloan.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

has anyone reached out to any of the reporters who cover the hobby?

David Seideman from Forbes is always talking to PWCC and writing articles on the hobby.

One just needs to go through PWCC's "In the news" section to see who the interested journalists are...

David is a member. He has been a staunch fan of Brent even as all this started to unfold, but it's always possible he changed his mind.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I'll guess the opposite end.

Law enforcement gets really involved. There are ALREADY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS of exposed cards by OVER 10 ALTERERS all using PWCC to launder their goods, plus the SSI company in Dallas.

PSA gets spun off from CLCT and is purchased. They take the SGC route and remove the guarantee for any cards prior to the buyout. Any claims under the current grade guarantee not covered will be subject to a class-action lawsuit, leading to a bankruptcy restructuring. All previously graded cards in the registry need to be reholdered/re-evaluated by new ownership to go back in the registry. PSA can survive, IMO, but if it does, it has to play this by the book and report to the public all known scammers, the cert numbers of questionable cards, and decertify them from the pop report/registry. If they don't, they lose the customer's confidence. Take the 1952 Topps Look-N-See. How can anyone trust that set registry anymore? 1953 Parkhurst? How many T206s has Gary worked/submitted? Without transparency in their process (opposite of the promised "internal investigation"), their big spenders SHOULD LOSE FAITH and should know that their registry competitors are gaining on them by fraud.

How does PSA continue to charge per card value, if their Grade Guarantee has no teeth? Beckett doesn't come with a promise, only expectation, but charges way less for hundred thousand dollar cards than PSA does. Is the Set Registry really still worth all the grading fees? Is public trust shattered?

Beckett customers, mostly younger and more in tune with the internet, realize there's no grade guarantee with their cards. They get together and file a class-action lawsuit, citing gross negligence. (Or is that a criminal crime? I'm not a lawyer) Beckett's already got major issues with their ownership group and leadership, and should lose the trust of the marketplace. Once the top cards stop dropping in price, it may be rapid. BGS Black Labels and Pristines will no longer be the crown jewels they used to be. Since they seem to have unfair grading practices (see the 100+ page thread at blowout), they could be criminally liable for fraud.

PWCC goes out of business. It just has to. Jail time for Brent is the only thing that makes sense. Surely there will be someone to fill the void. But PWCC is the enabler of all these "isolated bad actors."

The market corrects just like we were in a recession; I envision a 40% chop at the top. I think the low-mid end stays fairly constant, but the exponential growth curve for PSA 8/9/10 in vintage cards takes a beating. If it doesn't, PSA just goes about its business and Moser keeps destroying cardboard pictures with base ball men on them.

The watchdogs are no longer lazy, no longer have a defeatist attitude, no longer willing to sit on the sidelines and not rock the boat. And we're willing to push this as long as it takes to right the hobby. Like I said, I've already called in the FDLE to investigate the entire situation. I know others have contact their states. This will not be confined to the few, the proud, the too invested to speak up and do the right thing.

I completely agree with these statements. The Hobby probably should made a financial couse correction and this may aid in that for the good of the Hobby. It's the defeatist attitudes that believe nothing will happen. There's way too much money involved here. You're looking at 50 million just from pwcc in annual sales alone from 2010 to 2018. Possibly more from PSA and dont forget the forgery scandal -so yes, The FBI and SEC are looking into this. Why would anyone think that the government would let this ride? Because it's only Baseball cards? Hell no! It's a 5 billion dollar a year industry and a huge chunk of this falls under a publicly traded company regulated under the SEC.

Change has to happen. This Hobby has changed considerably since the days of Jefferson Burdick, Lionel Carter and Buck Barker, but it will continue to change weather or not PSA or PWCC are in it or not.

There are no garantees that this hobby is around in a generation or two, but the one of the ways it changes for the good is by being vigilant to fraud and by better education. Hobbyists and the Hobby may need to change their way of thinking and to alter their perceptions. Net 54 is a great site, and the collectors and dealers here have done some outstanding work on both educating and tipping off fraud, however it needs to be better advertisers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am impressed you know what the FBI and SEC are doing. I wish I did.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am impressed you know what the FBI and SEC are doing. I wish I did.

Sometimes it helps to have connections Pete. By the way, you've made some excellent observations on this and teach people about the laws.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by topcat61

Sometimes it helps to have connections Pete. By the way, you've made some excellent observations on this and teach people about the laws.

What the FBI is doing seems obvious but what about the SEC? The reserve?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What the FBI is doing seems obvious but what about the SEC? The reserve?

Well, PWCC has tried to brand itself as a bank and lending institution.

[buymycards]

You may have seen this You Tube video titled - How to Fix or Repair your Corners before Grading BGS PSA. Repair your Cards with the Dr.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ipg51mjzTo&t=691s

or this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il5Qcu3AVYI

or this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYVdD6WTYYU

or this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKiMM8w4-Ug

There are many videos that show us how to repair damaged cards before sending them in for grading. How many of these cards are being caught by the TPG's? Probably not many. This isn't going away. It will probably get worse rather than better.