PWCC Statement on Recent Card Trimming Concerns

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

What happens to the Moser cards, and other altered cards, once they are uncovered and returned to PWCC (or PSA or whoever) for refund? Will they be destroyed? I mean its just an altered card, they're not forgeries or anything, and in some cases might be rare and still hold significant value, even as an altered card

Good question. What if PSA makes good on these and labels them Authentic Altered? Does that really suffice? What's to keep someone from cracking it out and resubmitting it again hoping for a numerical grade? For those that believe PSA had no involvement, if it slipped by and they graded it once, what's to keep it from slipping by and getting graded again? That's of course if you really believe PSA is an innocent pawn in all this. I think they're part of the scam.

[joshuanip]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Good question. What if PSA makes good on these and labels them Authentic Altered? Does that really suffice? What's to keep someone from cracking it out and resubmitting it again hoping for a numerical grade? For those that believe PSA had no involvement, if it slipped by and they graded it once, what's to keep it from slipping by and getting graded again? That's of course if you really believe PSA is an innocent pawn in all this. I think they're part of the scam.

Given it’s a crisis of confidence, they should prevent cracking them for resubmission. Either donate or brand the cards.

[vintagetoppsguy]

For those that bought as pure investment, they might not want to give up those cards. It would be a break even. What's to keep them from holding onto the cards a couple years for this to all blow over and then turning a profit?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

For those that bought as pure investment, they might not want to give up those cards. It would be a break even. What's to keep them from holding onto the cards a couple years for this to all blow over and then turning a profit?

It might blow over in a couple of weeks, knowing the history of this hobby.

[joshuanip]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

For those that bought as pure investment, they might not want to give up those cards. It would be a break even. What's to keep them from holding onto the cards a couple years for this to all blow over and then turning a profit?

That's the problem, once this thing cools off, the cards get redistributed back into the marketplace over time. Easier to spot now with the heat on. I hope one of the culpable parties is forced, by law or tort, to take these cards out of circulation now before they become harder to find.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Good question. What if PSA makes good ....

When have you ever seen PSA make good on anything? Especially their written guarantee?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

When have you ever seen PSA make good on anything? Especially their written guarantee?

The reserve is based on prior experience so clearly they have bought back some volume of cards. But what we don't see is the volume of requests denied.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The reserve is based on prior experience so clearly they have bought back some volume of cards. But what we don't see is the volume of requests denied.

They fight everyone to the death unless they are sued or have their arms twisted.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

They fight everyone to the death unless they are sued or have their arms twisted.

Just fulfilling their duty to shareholders to maximize the bottom line.

[jsanz]

After reading all of this I have a concern that I have not seen anyone address. What happens if/when people stop trusting PSA as THE grading company? That is where everyone with a PSA slabbed card will take a hit. Lets just say even a small amount of people start second guessing PSA cards. That might be a few less bidders on your items or maybe your buy it now listing does not sell at the price you want. That is where the real damage can occur. Think about if the value of PSA slabbed cards just drops a little bit over this situation. That could be millions in lost value in small increments. This effect can go way beyond the altered cards in question.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by jsanz

After reading all of this I have a concern that I have not seen anyone address. What happens if/when people stop trusting PSA as THE grading company? That is where everyone with a PSA slabbed card will take a hit. Lets just say even a small amount of people start second guessing PSA cards. That might be a few less bidders on your items or maybe your buy it now listing does not sell at the price you want. That is where the real damage can occur. Think about if the value of PSA slabbed cards just drops a little bit over this situation. That could be millions in lost value in small increments. This effect can go way beyond the altered cards in question.

you mean like now as far as not trusting PSA????? i think most on here...I know I have..... thought about this very scenario.

[steve B]

You haven't already stopped trusting PSA?

[joshuanip]

Originally Posted by jsanz

After reading all of this I have a concern that I have not seen anyone address. What happens if/when people stop trusting PSA as THE grading company? That is where everyone with a PSA slabbed card will take a hit. Lets just say even a small amount of people start second guessing PSA cards. That might be a few less bidders on your items or maybe your buy it now listing does not sell at the price you want. That is where the real damage can occur. Think about if the value of PSA slabbed cards just drops a little bit over this situation. That could be millions in lost value in small increments. This effect can go way beyond the altered cards in question.

Remember GAI? Exodus to SGC.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The reserve is based on prior experience so clearly they have bought back some volume of cards. But what we don't see is the volume of requests denied.

It's all in the stock-holder statement. Guarantee returns were around 600k last year if I recall correctly. The figure has been increasing steadily and quickly the last few years.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Good question. What if PSA makes good on these and labels them Authentic Altered? Does that really suffice? What's to keep someone from cracking it out and resubmitting it again hoping for a numerical grade? For those that believe PSA had no involvement, if it slipped by and they graded it once, what's to keep it from slipping by and getting graded again? That's of course if you really believe PSA is an innocent pawn in all this. I think they're part of the scam.

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking yesterday. Unless PSA makes changes, then these cards will DEFINITELY be graded again.

[ullmandds]

the cards need to be either destroyed or somehow given a scarlet letter on the card itself that cant be removed.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

the cards need to be either destroyed or somehow given a scarlet letter on the card itself that cant be removed.

I think one of the modern card companies should purchase them, cut them up and make relic card inserts for their 2020 products.

Those that could never afford a green Cobb could then own a piece of one.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

i think one of the modern card companies should purchase them, cut them up and make relic card inserts for their 2020 products. :d

those that could never afford a green cobb could then own a piece of one.

shhhhhh!!!! (lol)

[swarmee]

http://www.sportscardradio.com/alert...by-psa-or-bgs/
Cardboard carnage. Just keep scrolling.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by swarmee

http://www.sportscardradio.com/alert...by-psa-or-bgs/
Cardboard carnage. Just keep scrolling.

Good reporting.... and the VAST majority are PSA.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think one of the modern card companies should purchase them, cut them up and make relic card inserts for their 2020 products.

Those that could never afford a green Cobb could then own a piece of one.

Actually that's one of the most interesting ideas you've had. If they're altered anyway it bothers me a lot less than cutting up a Ruth or Gehrig bat or something.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think one of the modern card companies should purchase them, cut them up and make relic card inserts for their 2020 products.

Those that could never afford a green Cobb could then own a piece of one.

thats actually a great idea!

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

the cards need to be either destroyed or somehow given a scarlet letter on the card itself that cant be removed.

Maybe if we can get Brent involved he can devise a sticker for high-end altered cards.

BrianP(arker)-beme

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Maybe if we can get Brent involved he can devise a sticker for high-end altered cards.

BrianP(arker)-beme

pass!!!!!

[irv]

Maybe this has already been posted but I just seen it on Facebook.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by irv

Maybe this has already been posted but I just seen it on Facebook.

Great card but it looks doctored.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by irv

Maybe this has already been posted but I just seen it on Facebook.

That would be an awesome card to hand out with the other freebies at the National. All attendees should get one in their goody bags.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by irv

Maybe this has already been posted but I just seen it on Facebook.

Can you please send me a link or find out who did this beautiful card. I would like to have them printed as real cards and handed out at the National at my expense. Thanks

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Good question. What if PSA makes good on these and labels them Authentic Altered? Does that really suffice? What's to keep someone from cracking it out and resubmitting it again hoping for a numerical grade? For those that believe PSA had no involvement, if it slipped by and they graded it once, what's to keep it from slipping by and getting graded again? That's of course if you really believe PSA is an innocent pawn in all this. I think they're part of the scam.

Maybe they can create a holder that will destroy the card if someone tries to crack it open...actually if they are to survive a return to PSA, Beckett or whoever would probably be for the best...

[tschock]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Maybe they can create a holder that will destroy the card if someone tries to crack it open

This whole alteration scenario is playing out like a '60s TV show. ".... Should you or any of your team members be caught, PSA will disavow any knowledge of your involvement. This holder will self destruct in 10 seconds" cue music...