Is it safe to buy graded? Or should I focus only on raw?

[jchcollins]

I've always bought graded vintage online, even though I only collect mid to lower grade, with the idea that buying a 5 can save you a raw card that is described as "Excellent", but arrives with a big old crease you couldn't see in the scan. Here anymore though, I don't know. I would hope that people wouldn't stoop (as I mentioned in another post) to altering something like my 1970 Topps Nolan Ryan PSA 6.5, but with all that is coming out, who knows. I know they altered a bunch of 1948 Leaf cards to make VG-EX examples EX-MT or NM, but not sure where they stopped. It's certainly frustrating to not be able to know. And besides Mr. Moser - we don't even know the extent of who "they" are yet...

For the moment, I might suggest buying raw, but make sure you buy from a trusted dealer with 100% positive feedback and a good return policy. I would agree there are some rough waters ahead for PSA and others - and it may affect more than just the most expensive cards in the hobby.

[Exhibitman]

It really depends. I collect a lot of cheap crap so most of my purchases are raw cards.

What do you think of as vintage? If you are talking postwar, there is a great deal of raw available, esp if you are not a condition bug.

On eBay, look for big, clear scans. Not cell phone picks. Identify some quality dealers and look at their stuff first. I hear Greg Morris is good for raw cards. Even so, when you purchase lots expect that there will be some hairline creases and overgrading.

If you are interested in the 1970s, there is a ton out there. I personally prefer to visit my LCS and go through their $0.50 boxes to look for cards I need. Nice way to spend a few free hours. I spend a ton of time at the National hunting through junk boxes. I enjoy it. Doesn't hurt that I have the occasional hit too. Last year I pulled a 1970 Bobby Orr insert from a $0.10 box, which I was looking through only because as I walked by the table I saw a 1979 FB HOFer peeking out the top and figured it might be worth a look. I must've pulled 100 cards from that dime box for my 1970s sets, most of which were $2+ at retail HOFers.

[Promethius88]

Just a thought....all graded cards were raw at one point. Since I personally believe that the vast majority of slabbed cards are legit, as there are millions of them, I would still buy graded...but that's just me. Nothing wrong with raw either, but the truth is, unless you measure and put every single card under a microscope, you could be getting an altered card. Now, depending on what happens, graded could take a plunge and raw could see a surge. Which, in my mind would be completely insane as you can take that card out of a holder and sell it raw...still the same card.
If you are doing intfor the enjoyment, buy what you like, raw or graded, whatever you feel you are getting a better deal on and call it a day. If you worry about it too much, it will just take the fun out of it and you might as well just take up gardening full time.
Best of luck!!

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

you can take that card out of a holder and sell it raw...

This happens all the time on PSA 5s and 6s that look like 8s. Sell better raw. Remember all the threads wondering about the Greg Morris auctions which started outpacing some PSA 9 prices for GM's NM-MT categories? Those cards weren't even "dead nuts centered" as they say.

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by swarmee

This happens all the time on PSA 5s and 6s that look like 8s. Sell better raw. Remember all the threads wondering about the Greg Morris auctions which started outpacing some PSA 9 prices for GM's NM-MT categories? Those cards weren't even "dead nuts centered" as they say.

Indeed. Been working on a 61 Topps set raw in NM or better and was outbid over and over on GMC auctions so I've had to take a rest from it for now. Hoping to find some decent stuff at the National

[wdwfan]

Didn't think I'd get this many replies, but thanks to everyone.

I want to collect 50s-early 60s stars and semis (I just don't think commons are going to appreciate like the stars will) to start then maybe go back into the 40s and older. I'm not a condition bug. In other words I don't need the mintiest, mint of all cards. The Ex stuff will work as long as it's got decent centering and corners, no paper loss, no writing, etc.

At the same time, I don't want to spend the time and effort buying low grade and have cards that look like they've been run over while in the bicycle spokes.

I will not buy anything from Greg Morris, PWCC, Probstien, etc. It appears to me, judging from my own inexperienced eye, that those guys bid on their own stuff. I mean how else can you explain the winning bidder having like 75-100% of their bids with this one seller and then the item getting relisted. But I digress.

I am about to close on a vintage purchase from someone on here for some mostly 60s stars with a few 50s sprinkled in. I'm really excited about potentially getting these cards and restarting my vintage collection. As I said, I may go back into the 40s and earlier after that as I study more about the older game. I've been watching Ken Burns' Baseball, and I want to try and pick up some of those guys I've been seeing.

[clydepepper]

Earlier this year, seeing the high prices everyone seems to ask for their graded cards, I decided to find the best raw Mantles I could - at significantly lower prices than those already graded.

I believe I found some cards that I can have graded at a later date with much less outlay of cash.

Obviously, you have to be careful...more careful than buying graded cards, though those are not 'bullet-proof' by any means.

I purchased from sellers I either had previously dealt with or ones I vetted in every way possible - and had a max price I was willing to spend in each case.

I'm far from an expert, but I believe it will work for me.


Good Luck.



.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by swarmee

This happens all the time on PSA 5s and 6s that look like 8s. Sell better raw. Remember all the threads wondering about the Greg Morris auctions which started outpacing some PSA 9 prices for GM's NM-MT categories? Those cards weren't even "dead nuts centered" as they say.

Yet. Give Moser some time to get to them...

[swarmee]

Yep, his eBay account is still active and Painthistorian has some nice raw ending tonight. Had an early bid on that 1952 Topps #1, but it sold for $227. Would be a shame if it gets Mosered.
Ricky-leo is what he changed his Ebay handle to. Hopefully everyone who sells on eBay cancels his purchases and informs the FBI where his current address is.

[Steve D]

I will definitely continue to buy graded/slabbed cards.

I have always been one who "buys the card, not the holder". Once I see a card that is in the grade range I'm looking for, I examine the card (even on the internet), and determine if it has the "eye appeal" I'm looking for. If it doesn't meet my expectations, I pass on it. It isn't really that difficult, as long as you can zoom the picture.

I remember very well, the days before the TPGs came into existence. 1953 and 1971 Topps that were colored-in with magic markers, trimmed cards, outright counterfeits..........

I believe the TPGs have, while there are valid concerns right now, greatly improved the hobby. I am confident they will continue to do so.

Steve