PWCC Statement on Recent Card Trimming Concerns

benjulmag · #1 06-02-2019, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Maybe I�m missing something obvious here, but what crime is being committed by someone who buys a baseball card in a PSA case and then cracks it out, trims the edge, and resubmits it to PSA, which then takes a fresh look at it (either realizing or not realizing they�ve seen the card before) and then assigned it a better grade on the basis that the card still meets their criteria. Or if Brent receives a card from a guy who got a card regraded from PSA.

I not justifying any of these shenanigans. Just wondering what LE is doing with this?

I was not aware that trimmed or recolored cards meet PSA's criteria for getting numerical grades. And that's the point. If the cards are submitted with full disclosure what was done to them, then that would be fine. But they are being submitted under a guise that such work was not performed, with the intent the cards be eventually purchased by collectors believing they are unaltered.

You see nothing fraudulent in that?

Snapolit1 · #2 06-02-2019, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjulmag

I was not aware that trimmed or recolored cards meet PSA's criteria for getting numerical grades. And that's the point. If the cards are submitted with full disclosure what was done to them, then that would be fine. But they are being submitted under a guise that such work was not performed, with the intent the cards be eventually purchased by collectors believing they are unaltered.

You see nothing fraudulent in that?

If I sell house and don’t tell the buyer there was six feet of water in the basement of the house last year that is not a crime. If I signed a disclosure document affirmatively saying there was never a flood at the house that could be a crime.
If someone can point me to a law saying that the seller of a collectible needs to disclosure any alterations done to the card prior to the sale I’m all ears.

Not justifying this just wondering what law enforcement is up to. If they are up to anything.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 06-02-2019, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If I sell house and don’t tell the buyer there was six feet of water in the basement of the house last year that is not a crime. If I signed a disclosure document affirmatively saying there was never a flood at the house that could be a crime.
If someone can point me to a law saying that the seller of a collectible needs to disclosure any alterations done to the card prior to the sale I’m all ears.

Not justifying this just wondering what law enforcement is up to. If they are up to anything.

Yet again. Mail fraud and wire fraud. Fraud -- remember? Intentional misrepresentation or concealment of a material fact.

18 USC 1341 and 1343.

Leon · #4 06-03-2019, 07:07 AM

This!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If I sell house and don�t tell the buyer there was six feet of water in the basement of the house last year that is not a crime. If I signed a disclosure document affirmatively saying there was never a flood at the house that could be a crime.
If someone can point me to a law saying that the seller of a collectible needs to disclosure any alterations done to the card prior to the sale I�m all ears.

Not justifying this just wondering what law enforcement is up to. If they are up to anything.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 06-03-2019, 07:11 AM

So if nothing potentially illegal occurred why is Brent working with law enforcement? Your wishful thinking doesn't change the scope of the law which several here have explained.

Leon · #6 06-03-2019, 07:13 AM

I didn't say nothing illegal occured. Why not just answer the question, counselor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So if nothing potentially illegal occurred why is Brent working with law enforcement? Your wishful thinking doesn't change the scope of the law which several here have explained.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 06-03-2019, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I didn't say nothing illegal occured. Why not just answer the question, counselor?

How many times do I have to say it. Mail fraud and wire fraud. 18 USC 1341 and 1343.

Leon · #8 06-03-2019, 07:17 AM

I am not a lawyer but this doesn't seem to fit those statutes. Try again. No one committed fraud if they didn't do anything illegal? Still no answer and I am all ears as Steve and some others are. No one is saying this is good. But how can you say someone is guilty of mail fraud or wire fraud when they didn't do anything illegal. Trimming a card isn't illegal. Doing it AND saying you didn't would be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How many times do I have to say it. Mail fraud and wire fraud. 18 USC 1341 and 1343.

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