Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

At the end of the day, there have always been, and always will be, assholes who will lie about what they are selling, and will game whatever system is in place for their benefit.

Sine the phrase "buyer beware" comes from the Latin "caveat emptor" I will assume that means there were assholes when Latin was a more popular language... (a long time ago).

True enough. As I've said before, the first bushel of wheat sold in the Agora was probably shilled up.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

True enough. As I've said before, the first bushel of wheat sold in the Agora was probably shilled up.

Agreed. Cards have been shilled pretty much since the first person started selling them. But the Registry took that to an exponentially higher level. And people bought in. Something about "Pride goeth before the fall" I suppose is now the situation. What a complete shit show.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Agreed. Cards have been shilled pretty much since the first person started selling them. But the Registry took that to an exponentially higher level. And people bought in. Something about "Pride goeth before the fall" I suppose is now the situation. What a complete shit show.

The most famous / valuable card in our business (oops, I mean hobby) was trimmed, and EVERYBODY knows it and NOBODY cares.

It's always been a shit show, at least since after the founding fathers stopped writing notes on their cards and gluing them in folders.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

The most famous / valuable card in our business (oops, I mean hobby) was trimmed, and EVERYBODY knows it and NOBODY cares.

It's always been a shit show, at least since after the founding fathers stopped writing notes on their cards and gluing them in folders.

As I've posted before, it shouldn't have been graded even if Mastro didn't trim it, because it was a post-factory sheet cut AUTH to begin with.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As I've posted before, it shouldn't have been graded even if Mastro didn't trim it, because it was a post-factory sheet cut AUTH to begin with.

Ahhhh, but you are wrong young Peter, for the sellers of opinions have spoken and deemed it an 8 on a 10 scale.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Ahhhh, but you are wrong young Peter, for the sellers of opinions have spoken and deemed it an 8 on a 10 scale.

I never understood why this aspect of it didn't get more attention. The Plank on the same Piedmont three card sheet that was cut in the 50s or whenever is an AUTH, so why not the Wagner which was never cut in the factory or put into a pack? But people seem obsessed with the trim job, which to my mind only made a nicer AUTH.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As I've posted before, it shouldn't have been graded even if Mastro didn't trim it, because it was a post-factory sheet cut AUTH to begin with.

Don't disagree, but that is now somewhat irrelevant because it was. IMO, the current question is where do we go now? I damn sure don't have much confidence in the graders and have a even larger lack of confidence in eBay and most internet scans.

I'm not shooting at anyone here because I think that the BST has been wonderful for the most part. But for the rest? There are about 2 auction houses I personally trust currently (LOTG and REA) and not so much any of the others. Once you get to a certain level of collecting, that makes it pretty hard to go on. Do we go back to shows? I'm good with that but unless you have lots of free time, it certainly would make collecting more difficult.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Don't disagree, but that is now somewhat irrelevant because it was. IMO, the current question is where do we go now? I damn sure don't have much confidence in the graders and have a even larger lack of confidence in eBay and most internet scans.

I'm not shooting at anyone here because I think that the BST has been wonderful for the most part. But for the rest? There are about 2 auction houses I personally trust currently (LOTG and REA) and not so much any of the others. Once you get to a certain level of collecting, that makes it pretty hard to go on. Do we go back to shows? I'm good with that but unless you have lots of free time, it certainly would make collecting more difficult.

Good questions. I've developed some damage control measures over the years, but I highly doubt it's been a perfect solution.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

There are about 2 auction houses I personally trust currently (LOTG and REA) and not so much any of the others.

It strikes me that LOTG and/or REA have a vested interest in maintaining these reputations and may very well develop the technology to accurately and objectively determine that none of their auction lots contain altered cards. It would be good for business on several levels, including less frequent returns/buybacks, and selling more product for higher prices with certain assurances. Frankly, with so many auction houses selling vintage baseball cards, there would certainly be a competitive advantage if they did, especially in light of this full blown disaster.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

It strikes me that LOTG and/or REA have a vested interest in maintaining these reputations and may very well develop the technology to accurately and objectively determine that none of their auction lots contain altered cards. It would be good for business on several levels, including less frequent returns/buybacks, and selling more product for higher prices with certain assurances. Frankly, with so many auction houses selling vintage baseball cards, there would certainly be a competitive advantage if they did, especially in light of this full blown disaster.

If PSA can't do it competently, which is PSA's stated job, I'm not sure why you would expect Al or Brian to. Hopefully they can. But I think that's probably overreaching a little. They rely (or relied) on the PSA grades to do their stuff just as we did. I am sure they will look at things more critically than before, but I would guess that they both have to depend on the assigned grade. Time will tell.