Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[bounce]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Yes. It seems to me the issue is with PSA. If they're letting trimmed cards through, let's focus our efforts on determining why or how this is happening. That would be my suggestion. But from what I've read most aren't holding them accountable.

I'm not convinced you've read all the threads if you don't think PSA is being criticized. There's plenty of anger directed both at PSA and BGS for letting these cards through. Yes, there is somewhat more focus on PWCC at some level, but they're also the only ones who have said anything official since this all started.

If you have read through most of those threads, are you really not at least persuaded that PWCC is involved in this in some way or another, and very likely pretty significantly involved in it? There are HUNDREDS of cards at this point that were sold by PWCC, to a known bad actor, that reappear in later PWCC auctions in higher graded slabs. But I guess that's all just all coincidence? That's just one person that has a pretty significant internet paper trail, but there are others that also getting exposed and others still that are being researched.

The below are statements directly from Brent's posts on alteration/conservation/tenets - these are his posts, they're not made up.

Bold is mine to point out the statements that are essentially an admission of their working with these people in the past, including the final line which based on my reading says they knew they were dealing with people who had previously been banned at TPGs from submitting. Some of what has been published so far sure seems to indicate that PWCC was responsible for submitting raw cards to PSA on behalf of these individuals since the consignors couldn't do it themselves.

Is there any other way to read these statements than to conclude that PWCC knew these people and knew these cards were running through their auctions in massive quantities?

Maybe all this isn't good enough in a courtroom, but it's pretty clear what happened here.

"We at PWCC will not tolerate our brand’s use as a front for bad behavior. That day is over. Today is a new day, based on facts and enforceable policies for which we expect the entire market to hold us accountable...

PWCC will officially cease working with any individual who has a proven track record of consistently hurting trust in the marketplace, the brand of PWCC, or the reputations of the grading companies upon which our market is based. We will collaborate with the grading companies to ensure bad actors are flagged, uniformly known, and that all is done to prevent them from affecting our market. PWCC will not work with any individuals whom the grading companies have banned, regardless of their individual track record with PWCC."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bounce

I'm not convinced you've read all the threads if you don't think PSA is being criticized. There's plenty of anger directed both at PSA and BGS for letting these cards through. Yes, there is somewhat more focus on PWCC at some level, but they're also the only ones who have said anything official since this all started.

If you have read through most of those threads, are you really not at least persuaded that PWCC is involved in this in some way or another, and very likely pretty significantly involved in it? There are HUNDREDS of cards at this point that were sold by PWCC, to a known bad actor, that reappear in later PWCC auctions in higher graded slabs. But I guess that's all just all coincidence? That's just one person that has a pretty significant internet paper trail, but there are others that also getting exposed and others still that are being researched.

The below are statements directly from Brent's posts on alteration/conservation/tenets - these are his posts, they're not made up.

Bold is mine to point out the statements that are essentially an admission of their working with these people in the past, including the final line which based on my reading says they knew they were dealing with people who had previously been banned at TPGs from submitting. Some of what has been published so far sure seems to indicate that PWCC was responsible for submitting raw cards to PSA on behalf of these individuals since the consignors couldn't do it themselves.

Is there any other way to read these statements than to conclude that PWCC knew these people and knew these cards were running through their auctions in massive quantities?

Maybe all this isn't good enough in a courtroom, but it's pretty clear what happened here.

"We at PWCC will not tolerate our brand’s use as a front for bad behavior. That day is over. Today is a new day, based on facts and enforceable policies for which we expect the entire market to hold us accountable...

PWCC will officially cease working with any individual who has a proven track record of consistently hurting trust in the marketplace, the brand of PWCC, or the reputations of the grading companies upon which our market is based. We will collaborate with the grading companies to ensure bad actors are flagged, uniformly known, and that all is done to prevent them from affecting our market. PWCC will not work with any individuals whom the grading companies have banned, regardless of their individual track record with PWCC."

I am sure there are many people who could testify based on direct dealings that he knew.