Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

As long as they're getting through PSA these guys can buy the cards through multiple Ebay IDs and sell them through any auction house. The only way to stop this is to figure out how or why so many doctored cards are making it through. Especially the modern trimmed cards which should be easy to measure.

If anyone has been thinking about starting a third party grading service now may be the time to do so.

Brent is not a victim of Moser, he's a co-conspirator. There's a reason why he only sells through Brent.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Brent is not a victim of Moser, he's a co-conspirator. There's a reason why he only sells through Brent.

That may be true. But he doesn't need pwcc if he can get his cards through PSA. Any Ebay consignor or auction house will take the consignments. Especially if they're submitted under a different name.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

That may be true. But he doesn't need pwcc if he can get his cards through PSA. Any Ebay consignor or auction house will take the consignments. Especially if they're submitted under a different name.

People seem to think Brent is the one submitting the cards, though. And there are plenty of people who would not take cards from him.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

That may be true. But he doesn't need pwcc if he can get his cards through PSA. Any Ebay consignor or auction house will take the consignments. Especially if they're submitted under a different name.

Correct. PSA's multiple failures are the bigger threat to the hobby.

This widespread problem transcends PWCC. As long as the "card modifiers" continue to dupe PSA, these issues can and will rear their ugly head potentially anywhere.... eBay, Auction Houses, net54's BST, direct sales, trades, etc.

And why can't PSA just measure the cards, again? Has there been any response from them at all? It will be interesting to see if they ever acknowledge it, and how much their attorneys spin/downplay it. The power they have within the hobby is disgusting and shameful, and I wish that someone, somehow, some day could take them down.

[Willjaimet]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Correct. PSA's multiple failures are the bigger threat to the hobby.

This widespread problem transcends PWCC. As long as the "card modifiers" continue to dupe PSA, these issues can and will rear their ugly head potentially anywhere.... eBay, Auction Houses, net54's BST, direct sales, trades, etc.

And why can't PSA just measure the cards, again? Has there been any response from them at all? It will be interesting to see if they ever acknowledge it, and how much their attorneys spin/downplay it. The power they have within the hobby is disgusting and shameful, and I wish that someone, somehow, some day could take them down.

There is so much more to catching alterations than simply measuring a card. Psa is inept at catching alterations and also are suspected of backdooring grades.

[Rhotchkiss]

Interesting thread bump, with 5 very provactive posts. Lots of new members on the board since the last post in July of 2019… this should be interesting.

I have only two comments/questions: (1) why on earth did you dig this up after 2.5 years? (2) I believe Jeff knows his stuff and is smart enough fully to comprehend what he posts on a public chat board.

[Willjaimet]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Interesting thread bump, with 5 very provactive posts. Lots of new members on the board since the last post in July of 2019… this should be interesting.

I have only two comments/questions: (1) why on earth did you dig this up after 2.5 years? (2) I believe Jeff knows his stuff and is smart enough fully to comprehend what he posts on a public chat board.

Thank you for asking why I brought this back up. To be honest I feel wronged and was attacked publicly. I decided I would no longer let people speak negatively about me without merit. I put a separate post up with my contact info if anyone needs anything.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Willjaimet

Thank you for asking why I brought this back up. To be honest I feel wronged and was attacked publicly. I decided I would no longer let people speak negatively about me without merit. I put a separate post up with my contact info if anyone needs anything.

Hi Will - I'm also from Oregon. I live in Wilsonville, and work downtown in Portland, so in some ways, we're probably practically neighbors. I'm relatively new on the Net54 board (about ~9 months now), so I'm not intimately familiar with the history here, and I also have never purchased one of your products, which means that you and I also have no previous commercial relationship.

But if you will indulge me, I might venture a few (hopefully helpful) observations:

1) I've never heard your name before you started posting in the last day or two. This suggests to me that no one is really talking about you, including the important fact that no one is talking negatively about you, at least not around here, at least not as long as I've been around here, prior to the last 1-2 days at least.

2) Reading some of the older posts, along with a few of the responses you've received so far suggests to me that you're not likely to receive a warm and welcoming reception around here. So your strategy may be flawed, unless all you really want is to pick some fights. If all you want is to mix it up with the Net54 populace, then my guess is that your strategy will be successful.

3) While it seems like you want to defend yourself, prior to your re-appearance, no one seems to have mentioned you in a while. As such, it seems like you're digging up old and cold history that many of us either didn't know existed, or had moved on from. Since it seems to be history, my advice would be to leave it in the past. The only potential exception might be if you're looking to process refunds for anyone who feels they didn't get their money's worth from your past products - I'm sure anyone in that position will appreciate your gesture.

4) If you're wanting to rehabilitate your image, and prove that you're a great guy, then actions speak louder than words. Coming on here and sparring with net54 posters probably isn't going to get you there. Processing refunds, sure. Putting out good products that are well received by the hobby, sure. But arguing, even loudly and stridently, about the ancient past on hobby chat boards probably won't do much to change hearts and minds.

Just a few modest ideas, in the spirit of trying to be helpful to you in your quest. While all of us enjoy throwing metaphorical rocks at each other, and having a front row seat as others trade blows, my experience as an erstwhile combatant in one or two great Net54 battles of yore is that sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

Good luck!

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

That may be true. But he doesn't need pwcc if he can get his cards through PSA. Any Ebay consignor or auction house will take the consignments. Especially if they're submitted under a different name.

Yet Moser almost exclusively uses Brent. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence as opposed to Brent being a full co-conspirator which could not be more obvious.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Yet Moser almost exclusively uses Brent. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence as opposed to Brent being a full co-conspirator which could not be more obvious.

Assuming that's true, it doesn't appear likely that relationship will continue if pwcc wants to stay in business. So where will the cards go next? Someone will submit them, and someone will sell them. I'm much more concerned with what's going on at PSA than how involved Brent is. It's easy to avoid one auction house or Ebay if necessary. But pretty tough if you can't trust any PSA graded card.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Assuming that's true, it doesn't appear likely that relationship will continue if pwcc wants to stay in business. So where will the cards go next? Someone will submit them, and someone will sell them. I'm much more concerned with what's going on at PSA than how involved Brent is. It's easy to avoid one auction house or Ebay if necessary. But pretty tough if you can't trust any PSA graded card.

Jesse, I hear you but Brent will keep on rocking on...You know why? EBAY (they don't give a f***) I know I'm not hitting on your initial response, but this in a nutshell is what all of this is about....

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Assuming that's true, it doesn't appear likely that relationship will continue if pwcc wants to stay in business. So where will the cards go next? Someone will submit them, and someone will sell them. I'm much more concerned with what's going on at PSA than how involved Brent is. It's easy to avoid one auction house or Ebay if necessary. But pretty tough if you can't trust any PSA graded card.

Overly optimistic. Now that they know how they were caught thy won't make the same mistakes again, which is why law enforcement needs to get involved.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Assuming that's true, it doesn't appear likely that relationship will continue if pwcc wants to stay in business. So where will the cards go next? Someone will submit them, and someone will sell them. I'm much more concerned with what's going on at PSA than how involved Brent is. It's easy to avoid one auction house or Ebay if necessary. But pretty tough if you can't trust any PSA graded card.

I’m not concerned about Brent staying in business. I’m concerned about him going to jail. You can worry about PSA.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I’m not concerned about Brent staying in business. I’m concerned about him going to jail. You can worry about PSA.

Feels like Mastro and Allen all over again.

[Willjaimet]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Feels like Mastro and Allen all over again.

How does this compare? The Masteo issues were so much worse if he did what they accused him of. A true shill bid is when a seller knows how much a buyer is willing to pay and then bid him up which is 100% theft. Pwcc offered refunds and also it would have been impossible for them to truly shill people because eBay was in the middle hiding the bid amounts.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I’m not concerned about Brent staying in business. I’m concerned about him going to jail. You can worry about PSA.

Are you a betting man? I'll give you 3:1 odds he's not even indicted, much less goes to jail.

3:1 odds. You in?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Are you a betting man? I'll give you 3:1 odds he's not even indicted, much less goes to jail.

3:1 odds. You in?

Doug and Bill were probably a longer shot when all that was getting going.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Are you a betting man? I'll give you 3:1 odds he's not even indicted, much less goes to jail.

3:1 odds. You in?

I’m in.

[Willjaimet]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I’m not concerned about Brent staying in business. I’m concerned about him going to jail. You can worry about PSA.

Why does Brent deserve jail time? Wasn’t he selling an authenticated 3rd party asset? And to my knowledge anyone who was unhappy with their purchase was given a refund. So if no one got hurt financially where is the punishable crime? Half the people on here have done worse things than this.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Willjaimet

Why does Brent deserve jail time? Wasn’t he selling an authenticated 3rd party asset? And to my knowledge anyone who was unhappy with their purchase was given a refund. So if no one got hurt financially where is the punishable crime? Half the people on here have done worse things than this.

I only truthfully know of one...now.

Has PWCC contacted the buyers of your consignments and asked the buyers if they would like a refund as of yet? I could post the BODA Blowout thread if you would need help creating a list.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Yet Moser almost exclusively uses Brent. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence as opposed to Brent being a full co-conspirator which could not be more obvious.

+1...

[Willjaimet]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Brent is not a victim of Moser, he's a co-conspirator. There's a reason why he only sells through Brent.

What proof do you have of this? Aren’t you an attorney for the MOB lol?