Alteration vs. Conservation Defined

[Leon]

Finally there is a well reasoned lawyer in this thread.

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Ideal World

1. There is full disclosure of what was done to the card, without any pretense to give such "work" a definition.

2. The sole purpose of a slab is to opine that the card is authentic and to describe what was done to the card without concluding whether such work fits into the category of conservation or alteration, and that all numerical grades will be eliminated.

Real World

1. People buy the slab, and once it is slabbed, what was done to the card becomes irrelevant.

2. IMO all T206 10's have been trimmed.

3. IMO the overwhelming majority of T206 8's and 9's have been worked on.

4. The cover card of the hobby has been trimmed and would grade an "A" if taken out of the slab and resubmitted.

5. To my knowledge, the founder of PSA has not recanted his view that because he is one of the very few people who has seen said cover card out of the slab, his opinion that the card was not trimmed is correct, regardless that the person who trimmed the card has admitted such and went to prison in part because of such admission.

6. To almost everyone in this hobby, points 2, 3, 4 and 5 are irrelevant.

7. This entire discussion of "altered" versus "conserved" as a practical matter is irrelevant because regardless what one calls it, if the card gets slabbed with a numerical grade, mission accomplished -- to most people in this hobby the end justifies the means.

8. The notion of paying multiples more for a 10 than a 9 is my definition of insanity.

9. That PWCC came into being with its business model was inevitable.

10. At some future point PWCC's business model will be looked upon with the same awe and respect that PSA's set registry now is.

Conclusion

1. I feel very fortunate I got started in the hobby when cards had no value, which allows me to continue to collect as a hobby and for fun.

2. It felt good to vent.

[calvindog]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...290614&page=29

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...290614&page=29

Whatever you do, don't text. They can come back to bite you and that might not taste as good as some other things.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...290614&page=29

Corey may be right that most people don't care, but for anyone who is bothered by trimming, this thread is quite educational and disturbing on several levels.

[swarmee]

Obviously PSA cares because they're on the hook for reimbursing people when their inability to catch these alterations is proven. And it's obvious they're being targeted because their cards have proven to sell for much higher over time for vintage. The majority of modern cards found so far were in BGS slabs and the majority of the forged T206 autos were in SGC slabs. None of the major grading companies are coming out unscathed.

Has anyone determined the identity of the eBay user whitman111?

Looks like they've recently bought cards from Greg Morris and painthistorian. Will those cards end up trimmed/bleached in slabs?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Obviously PSA cares because they're on the hook for reimbursing people when their inability to catch these alterations is proven. And it's obvious they're being targeted because their cards have proven to sell for much higher over time for vintage. The majority of modern cards found so far were in BGS slabs and the majority of the forged T206 autos were in SGC slabs. None of the major grading companies are coming out unscathed.

Has anyone determined the identity of the eBay user whitman111?

Looks like they've recently bought cards from Greg Morris and painthistorian. Will those cards end up trimmed/bleached in slabs?

He was identified today on Blowout.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He was identified today on Blowout.

And has a very long relationship with Brent.

[swarmee]

Reported to be Gary Moser. Scams going back 20 years if you google his name.

[BLongley]

Originally Posted by calvindog

And has a very long relationship with Brent.

Gary Moser... looks like it’s been officially confirmed over there, so I will just let it out over here... yes a very long history with Brent... so much so the cards he purchases pre conservation from Brent they stay out of the “vault”... only the newer nicer version of the card makes it in... with the strong eye appeal sticker... He sure is a talented conserver!! Scary good!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

And has a very long relationship with Brent.

Is this relationship good for the hobby though?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Obviously PSA cares because they're on the hook for reimbursing people when their inability to catch these alterations is proven. And it's obvious they're being targeted because their cards have proven to sell for much higher over time for vintage. The majority of modern cards found so far were in BGS slabs and the majority of the forged T206 autos were in SGC slabs. None of the major grading companies are coming out unscathed.

Has anyone determined the identity of the eBay user whitman111?

Looks like they've recently bought cards from Greg Morris and painthistorian. Will those cards end up trimmed/bleached in slabs?

I did not know that. Is that why SGC got out of the autograph business?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I did not know that. Is that why SGC got out of the autograph business?

Supposedly no, their autograph authenticators got hired by other companies.