Alteration vs. Conservation Defined

[HRBAKER]

What, you don't see the similarity between a '52 Topps and the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel?

[oldjudge]

Who made this guy king?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Who made this guy king?

With tenets, he would more rightly be identified as The Landlord, and with this proclamation the rent is now due for all asset-minded investors.

Brian (Words are so darn confusing)

[sayheykid54]

The question PWCC is why? Why would you want your business model to involve what many view as alterations?

You are promoting the fact of ENCOURAGING collectors to "conserve" cards. Seems ridiculous to me.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Who made this guy king?

The Lady Of The Lake when she held aloft Excalibur?

[calvindog]

If PWCC doesn’t acknowledge the altered cards they’re selling why would the card doctors acknowledge it? And what’s the point in expecting the card doctors to announce their work? After all, they slipped the cards past the TPG for a reason.

I think Brent and Betsy need better advisers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

If PWCC doesn’t acknowledge the altered cards they’re selling why would the card doctors acknowledge it? And what’s the point in expecting the card doctors to announce their work? After all, they slipped the cards past the TPG for a reason.

I think Brent and Betsy need better advisers.

The consignment form will be modified to include, if you submitted any of these cards yourself, please state all work you did on the card, so PWCC can determine whether it is altered or conserved nd what to disclose.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Man there is some serious apathy going on around here. PWCC proposes to adopt a significantly different definition of altered cards than the TPGs and the hobby in general have embraced for decades, and there's less response than if someone complained about shipping costs on an ebay card.

[frankbmd]

Shipping costs less than the vault.

Sales tax avoidance is a straw man.

Alteration is monetary.

Restoration is monetary.

The soaker, the fixer, the TPG, the consignor and the vendor are all in the same boat, which is not yet sinking.

Will anything change as a result of a definition rewrite? Unlikely.

Money talks.

I really don’t know but I suspect that high grade tobacco cards are more prevalent today than 25 years ago.

I have neuropathy, not apathy.

[MattyC]

PWCC's "tenet" is just another opinion, in an infinite sea of opinions. I value my time and don't see why I should pay much of it to what some eBay seller says. I don't have to subscribe to what PWCC says anymore than I have to obey PSA's opinion, when they say one card is better than another. Life's way too short to let opinions cause aggravation— especially in one's hobby, which is a source of enjoyment, relaxation, and escape from big problems.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Man there is some serious apathy going on around here. PWCC proposes to adopt a significantly different definition of altered cards than the TPGs and the hobby in general have embraced for decades, and there's less response than if someone complained about shipping costs on an ebay card.

Peter,

I'm not sure that its apathy, per se, so much as resignation. I agree with you that the proposed "definition" of altered cards is substantially different from what has historically been the norm, obviously for overtly financial reasons, and that it is complete BS given what's going on. It is actually meaningless. But after years of shilling complaints, false bid complaints, failure to disqualify shill/retracting bidders according to the stated "policy," etc., why would people get too exorcised about this? What most collectors care about is the number, not what happened to get it there. I think I disagree with Leon that PWCC is doing anything good for the hobby, but that's an argument for another day. And, I will have to admit that I've bought cards from them before.

In any event, stuff trumps all. Always has, probably always will. They are perceived as having good stuff. Evidently that's what matters. Doesn't matter how or why. Too sad.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Man there is some serious apathy going on around here. PWCC proposes to adopt a significantly different definition of altered cards than the TPGs and the hobby in general have embraced for decades, and there's less response than if someone complained about shipping costs on an ebay card.

I think what is missing from this thread that is causing the Blowout Forums thread to blow up, so to speak, are some of the examples over there, illustrating, perhaps, what the new PWCC tenets are trying to support. Here are a few of the examples, which you can see in the links Calvindog provided:

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Who made this guy king?

He who makes the money, makes the rules.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Who made this guy king?

I think PWCC is the King, The King of submitting doctored cards to PSA and then selling them. I'll bet 50% of everything he has been selling is doctored, IMHO

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

What, you don't see the similarity between a '52 Topps and the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel?

This is the driving defense. My concern is not about an n162 that had stains cleaned off. It's about an n162 that is hot off the press. Just my .02. I mostly buy cards graded 3 and lower. Rob