PWCC vault?

[bobbyw8469]

I don't know what to think about this vault. What happens if you die and no one knows what is in "the vault". I mean, it's an interesting concept. Just too many unkowns.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I don't know what to think about this vault. What happens if you die and no one knows what is in "the vault". I mean, it's an interesting concept. Just too many unkowns.

it's kinda similar to the idea of owning a part of a card?

Personally it's not something I'd be interested in...more of a concept for "investors."


If you buy a high buck card from PWCC...save on taxes intially...with the intent to resell through PWCC at a later date.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

it's kinda similar to the idea of owning a part of a card?

Personally it's not something I'd be interested in...more of a concept for "investors."


If you buy a high buck card from PWCC...save on taxes intially...with the intent to resell through PWCC at a later date.

Right -- you never have to see or touch the stupid card. It's just an asset on a balance sheet.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Right -- you never have to see or touch the stupid card. It's just an asset on a balance sheet.

exactly!!

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Right -- you never have to see or touch the stupid card. It's just an asset on a balance sheet.

Wait...cards are stupid??

[Sean]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Wait...cards are stupid??

My cards aren't stupid, they're just a little slow.

[ullmandds]

my cards ride the short bus to the vault!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

my cards ride the short bus to the vault!

Where they are promptly ingested.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Will card owners be allowed to come and spend time with their cards in the vault?
If so, perhaps an Airbnb or Extended Stay America could be built on site.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Right -- you never have to see or touch the stupid card. It's just an asset on a balance sheet.

A trimmed asset that never leaves the vault, how stupid can people be? Very stupid apparently.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I don't know what to think about this vault. What happens if you die and no one knows what is in "the vault". I mean, it's an interesting concept. Just too many unkowns.

.... and can someone with a bottle of Peach Schnapps open "The Vault"?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by tschock

.... and can someone with a bottle of Peach Schnapps open "The Vault"?

Can't believe this got no love

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Luke

Can't believe this got no love

Where's Sloate the great Seinfeld fan?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I don't know what to think about this vault. What happens if you die and no one knows what is in "the vault". I mean, it's an interesting concept. Just too many unkowns.

That's why we have Geraldo Rivera. He can make amends for the Al Capone fiasco, and your cards might even get some TV exposure.

[Republicaninmass]

Wheres Dpeck? How can these guys be selling unsecured " investments" with no license, private placement memorandum, etc. Seems like a whole lotta good ideas, poorly executed .

[Bradyhill]

Maybe everyone should try to understand what services come with the vault before turning negative. Everyone seems to be such know-it-alls before knowing the facts. The vault’s primary mission is not a sales tax avoidance initiative. I’ve personally seen the Vault and believe the business strategy behind it is brilliant. Just my opinion from someone who owns and runs a very large business. And yes, I will take full advantage of these services. Do what’s right for you and draw your own conclusions.

Brady

[conor912]

This hobby is so f'd.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Bradyhill

Maybe everyone should try to understand what services come with the vault before turning negative. Everyone seems to be such know-it-alls before knowing the facts. The vault’s primary mission is not a sales tax avoidance initiative. I’ve personally seen the Vault and believe the business strategy behind it is brilliant. Just my opinion from someone who owns and runs a very large business. And yes, I will take full advantage of these services. Do what’s right for you and draw your own conclusions.

Brady

Full name.when giving.an.opion of.person or service.reqiired

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Full name.when giving.an.opion of.person or service.reqiired

His ID is his full name. He hasn't posted much here I guess but certainly a known collector.

And yes, I could see where a secure storage facility could be attractive to someone with substantial value in cards who didn't care about access to them; or lived relatively close, or whose intent was to resell through PWCC. On the other hand, as Steve points out, PWCC certainly has emphasized the sales tax aspect in its promotion.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Bradyhill

Maybe everyone should try to understand what services come with the vault before turning negative. Everyone seems to be such know-it-alls before knowing the facts. The vault’s primary mission is not a sales tax avoidance initiative. I’ve personally seen the Vault and believe the business strategy behind it is brilliant. Just my opinion from someone who owns and runs a very large business. And yes, I will take full advantage of these services. Do what’s right for you and draw your own conclusions.

Brady

Ok, enlighten us. What is the great point of this other than tax avoidance? I received their email too, and that that seemed to be the clear thrust of it. Maybe I need my secret decoder ring on this one.

[Republicaninmass]

13 posts...and what do you get


Another post praising the vault of Brett

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Ok, enlighten us. What is the great point of this other than tax avoidance? I received their email too, and that that seemed to be the clear thrust of it. Maybe I need my secret decoder ring on this one.

Tax avoidance is OK. Tax evasion is not.

This may be legal the same way that buying items in a tax-free state is fine. It’s just when you bring them back to your home state that the Use tax kicks in.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Bradyhill

Maybe everyone should try to understand what services come with the vault before turning negative. Everyone seems to be such know-it-alls before knowing the facts. The vault’s primary mission is not a sales tax avoidance initiative. I’ve personally seen the Vault and believe the business strategy behind it is brilliant. Just my opinion from someone who owns and runs a very large business. And yes, I will take full advantage of these services. Do what’s right for you and draw your own conclusions.

Brady

you've SEEN "the vault?" Is it real and SPECTACULAR???

[Goudey77]

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/...ing-cards.html

[jayshum]

I looked on the PWCC website for more info, and there are fees charged for any cards sent to the vault unless they are from a PWCC auction, so on top of the 0.5% storage fee that was mentioned in the e-mail I received, the following fees also apply. For non-graded cards, there is a $10 minimum fee so for a card under around $140-150, it looks like that fee would offset any sales tax savings.

Archival Fee.
Graded Cards – 1% of market value is charged at intake of assets (minimum fee of $2 per asset and a maximum fee of $100 per asset). Note: completely graded sets, mixed grading company sets or sets registered with PSA, SGC, and/or Beckett use the same ingestion process as single graded cards.

Non-Graded Cards – 1% of market value is charged at intake of assets (minimum fee of $10 per asset and maximum fee of $100 per asset).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I looked on the PWCC website for more info, and there are fees charged for any cards sent to the vault unless they are from a PWCC auction, so on top of the 0.5% storage fee that was mentioned in the e-mail I received, the following fees also apply. For non-graded cards, there is a $10 minimum fee so for a card under around $140-150, it looks like that fee would offset any sales tax savings.

Archival Fee.
Graded Cards – 1% of market value is charged at intake of assets (minimum fee of $2 per asset and a maximum fee of $100 per asset). Note: completely graded sets, mixed grading company sets or sets registered with PSA, SGC, and/or Beckett use the same ingestion process as single graded cards.

Non-Graded Cards – 1% of market value is charged at intake of assets (minimum fee of $10 per asset and maximum fee of $100 per asset).

Ingestion just seems like the wrong word. I think they use it multiple times.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Bradyhill

Maybe everyone should try to understand what services come with the vault before turning negative. Everyone seems to be such know-it-alls before knowing the facts. The vault’s primary mission is not a sales tax avoidance initiative. I’ve personally seen the Vault and believe the business strategy behind it is brilliant. Just my opinion from someone who owns and runs a very large business. And yes, I will take full advantage of these services. Do what’s right for you and draw your own conclusions.

Brady

+1 - Well said Brady! Very innovative and a great idea with various positive angles.

Joe T.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Wheres Dpeck? How can these guys be selling unsecured " investments" with no license, private placement memorandum, etc. Seems like a whole lotta good ideas, poorly executed .

I am generally in favor of what PWCC is doing in the hobby but the only thing so far that has me scratching my head is this.

I am not certain how they can be giving investment advice on cards and treating them like securities and not have some form of oversight.

There were a lot of people trying to do similar with the crypo currency market and the SEC stepped in.

In a thread on CU we discussed this and one thing that stuck out to me was when a person using their advisory service was quoted as saying Brent told me not to bid on that card and wait for another one. To me this is just like a realtor saying don't bid on the house I am selling. When you agree to sell someone's trading cards you are obligated to them and to try and achieve the best selling price. I find this scenario as a major conflict of interest and something I believe needs to be more well thought out.

I will just add I don't know Brady Hill personally but if anyone follows high level collectors at all the guy is a whale.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

In a thread on CU we discussed this and one thing that stuck out to me was when a person using their advisory service was quoted as saying Brent told me not to bid on that card and wait for another one.

Maybe he generously steered his client away from a trimmed or otherwise altered card in a PWCC auction? It's theoretically possible I suppose. Wait, probably not.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Maybe he generously steered his client away from a trimmed or otherwise altered card in a PWCC auction? It's theoretically possible I suppose. Wait, probably not.

If I recall it said with better eye appeal for the grade.

We can all agree that not all cards within in a grade are created equally and obviously there can be intense debate over the topic but from an investment standpoint clearly eye appeal is huge.

That said the advice needs to be coming from someone who is not selling the card and talking potential bidders out of bidding on it and potentially hurting the final selling price.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

In a thread on CU we discussed this and one thing that stuck out to me was when a person using their advisory service was quoted as saying Brent told me not to bid on that card and wait for another one. To me this is just like a realtor saying don't bid on the house I am selling. When you agree to sell someone's trading cards you are obligated to them and to try and achieve the best selling price. I find this scenario as a major conflict of interest and something I believe needs to be more well thought out.

Was the card in question in a PWCC auction? If so, then your scenario plays out. If it was in another auction, then that opens up another can of worms. Having your clients avoid other auctions and steering them towards your auctions. In either case, there is a definite conflict of interest.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If "investment advice" includes advising people how much to bid on cards in PWCC auctions, that strikes me as conflicted.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

Was the card in question in a PWCC auction? If so, then your scenario plays out. If it was in another auction, then that opens up another can of worms. Having your clients avoid other auctions and steering them towards your auctions. In either case, there is a definite conflict of interest.

Yes it was a PWCC auction. Essentially saying how unbiased their advice was.

In real estate you can't represent both sides without full disclosure.

To me this is a huge can of worms because I under no circumstances feel it is right to pay someone to sell your cards and then have them at the same time tell preferred buyers to pass and wait for a better example to come along. If they want to give advice on other sellers cards in this form great. Just not on cards they are selling.

[Dpeck100]

It was in this article


https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidse.../#2b0cba6d22fa


Here is my post


Let me first say I am a big fan of PWCC and really feel they have done a great job in the trading card market. I used to marvel when I would see their listings on EBAY and it took a few years to realize they weren't actually the one's who owned all of the awesome cards they were selling. I have purchased from them many times and feel they are miles ahead of other major EBAY sellers and their great results speak for themselves.

This quote from the article caught my eye and has me pondering whether or not this is a good idea.

In several cases, Huigens steered him away from the cards PWCC was selling: “I prefer you focus on slightly higher grades where the eye appeal is less volatile and the market is more stable,” he wrote him about an early Bowman Mickey Mantle in off-condition.

My first take is that this is a conflict of interest. When you have someone list your card the goal is to achieve the highest selling price. If the person selling it for you is talking buyers out of bidding on your card it can work against the final selling price as less buyers are in the market for it. I feel that this is kind of like a listing agent in real estate talking you out of the house they are selling. Their first priority is to the person whose home or in this case card that they are representing. I do think it is a great concept when dealing with others sellers cards and another value add that PWCC is trying to offer.

Curious what others think about it.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Yes it was a PWCC auction. Essentially saying how unbiased their advice was.

In real estate you can't represent both sides without full disclosure.

To me this is a huge can of worms because I under no circumstances feel it is right to pay someone to sell your cards and then have them at the same time tell preferred buyers to pass and wait for a better example to come along. If they want to give advice on other sellers cards in this form great. Just not on cards they are selling.

Let's say a collector who plans to build a major high grade collection asks an auctioneer to steer him to the very best cards in the sale. If the auctioneer points out what are in his opinion the very best cards, he is doing nothing wrong. If I've consigned a bunch of VG cards to the sale, and someone else consigned well centered MT cards, I don't expect the auctioneer to recommend mine first.

I don't think recommending a group of better cards necessarily hurts other consignors. And if the auctioneer can spot a flaw that the bidder missed, it's okay to tell him to wait for a better example.

[Baseball Bob]

I totally agree that this sounds like crap that happens before a collapse. Reminds me of the dot.com bubble and the “new economy” spew that was going on at the turn of the century. Look out below!!! Maybe hide in the vault until the crash is over??

[ullmandds]

oy gavault!