Are We Slaves To The Registry?

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by calvindog

You lost me.

A Pop 2 went to a Pop 6 and you no longer think it is rare.

I guess the question is what is rare? I still think 6 known examples in this case is rare. If it isn't still considered rare than it is sort of rare meaning very close.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

A Pop 2 went to a Pop 6 and you no longer think it is rare.

I guess the question is what is rare? I still think 6 known examples in this case is rare. If it isn't still considered rare than it is sort of rare meaning very close.

When did I suggest this wasn’t a rare card? Of course it is. There are two in existence from all that I know. If there were two less it would be extinct.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

When did I suggest this wasn’t a rare card? Of course it is. There are two in existence from all that I know. If there were two less it would be extinct.

like this guy

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by calvindog

When did I suggest this wasn’t a rare card? Of course it is. There are two in existence from all that I know. If there were two less it would be extinct.

I just interpreted your comment that if four were sitting around and it went to a Pop 6 it wouldn't be considered rare any longer.

Some of this discussion is predicated around what is rare. If a card where there are two known examples increases by a few that is to be expected over time but the chances of a card with only two known examples at this point exploding is zero.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I just interpreted your comment that if four were sitting around and it went to a Pop 6 it wouldn't be considered rare any longer.

Some of this discussion is predicated around what is rare. If a card where there are two known examples increases by a few that is to be expected over time but the chances of a card with only two known examples at this point exploding is zero.

I was just being sarcastic. The card would still be rare at a 6 pop but may be worth a little less. Maybe.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I was just being sarcastic. The card would still be rare at a 6 pop but may be worth a little less. Maybe.

I assume it would be worth the same or more. Sometimes a publicized recent sale creates even more interest.

I know nothing about the card but if there are only two know copies I would consider that insanely rare. Cool card.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I assume it would be worth the same or more. Sometimes a publicized recent sale creates even more interest.

I know nothing about the card but if there are only two know copies I would consider that insanely rare. Cool card.

Point of order - If you call a card insanely rare, do you have to have your full name in your post? I know you do David, but I just want to clarify the forum rules. Perhaps Leon is close by.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Point of order - If you call a card insanely rare, do you have to have your full name in your post? I know you do David, but I just want to clarify the forum rules. Perhaps Leon is close by.

I have some insanely rare cards. It is like the Gem Mint 10 of rare. Haha

[riggs336]

I bought a lot of expensive (for the time) cards online and through the mail before third party grading got a foothold in the hobby. A lot of them turned out to be trimmed, colored or just outright fakes.
Sometimes I got my money back but more often i didn't. I'm still finding trimmed cards that have been in my collection for decades.
I'm not an apologist for the sins of TPGs, but at least these days I'm fairly confident I'm getting the real thing.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by riggs336

I bought a lot of expensive (for the time) cards online and through the mail before third party grading got a foothold in the hobby. A lot of them turned out to be trimmed, colored or just outright fakes.
Sometimes I got my money back but more often i didn't. I'm still finding trimmed cards that have been in my collection for decades.
I'm not an apologist for the sins of TPGs, but at least these days I'm fairly confident I'm getting the real thing.

Depends on what you're buying, IMO. There are tons of trimmed cards in slabs, again IMO.

[frankbmd]

The current crossover thread suggests that cards failing to cross over from SGC to PSA result in profits for PSA despite their "free" Registry. And yet folks claim they are not slaves to the Registry.

I would like to hear the following questions discussed.

What would the landscape of third parting grading look like if there was no PSA Registry?

How would market share be distributed among the legitimate (?) TPGs?

Who has the best slab?
Who has the best graders?
Who has the best customer service?

or more simply put

Would your collection be in PSA holders if the registry did not exist? Are they that much better than the competition?

[Dpeck100]

The OP of that thread was trying to cross over cards to PSA in an attempt to increase their value. I see no reason why a corporation shouldn't be able to profit from the attempt of a consumer to try and profit. Had the OP put no minimum grade all cards that were not deemed to be altered would have ended up in a slab. PSA examined the cards and therefore should be compensated for the process.

It is really hard to say what the landscape would look like. I got into submitting cards in 2010 and it was clear at that point there was really no other way to go for more modern cards like I collect and the market share was north of 80% of the new submission volume at that point. The battle was won quite some time ago and all three third party graders had a shot and PSA won. I am not entirely certain if SGC ever really wanted to compete on the mass volume level or if they were content being a niche player but obviously today they have a tiny amount of market share.

There is no doubt the registry has aided PSA in their dominance. Plenty of people myself included played follow the leader. When I decided to start my venture I did a lot of research on the highest sale priced cards and the registry and it was beyond clear there was no other direction for me to take it if I wanted to attempt to maximize the opportunity. The top dealers were submitting their cards to PSA and the range of sets that were being collected was extremely broad.

It is really impossible to go back in time and play the what if game. PSA just was so much further ahead of the other two when I came into graded cards that in my view the horse had already left the barn. They had a drastically better website, active message board, great marketing, dominant market share, highest on average selling prices, very professional magazine, and of course thousands of listed sets on the registry.

I have spoken to Joe Orlando and he never once said PSA is better at grading cards but instead they focus on branding. I think it is incredibly smart. Building a brand created loyalty and value add and you can't even begin to compare the online presence of the three.

There has always been debate about who has the best slab. I personally like the PSA slab the best because it is simple and easy to handle and you can shuffle them like cards. The SGC slab really makes many cards pop and for some of the older issues is extremely attractive and I could see someone liking it more. The BGS slab was always thought to be the best because of its strength and I made a video some years ago after numerous people challenged me and didn't believe they could be busted open so easily just to prove a point and they are in my view the easiest to safely crack a card from. They are bulky and heavy and I personally just don't care for them. One of the knocks against PSA is their older slabs are weak and the seem can easily be popped and this has proven to be true. Instead of resting on their laurels they came out with a slab so tough I about damaged both cards I tried to crack out and now I am scared to even try. This is a toss up because I think you will never find total consensus.

I don't know if you can say who has the best graders. Anyone who has ever submitted cards will quickly realize it isn't a completely perfect science. This is one of the things that is hard to accept about third party grading. I was alarmed when I first got involved when I saw a few cards bump because I just didn't see how that could happen. How does a card magically go up in grade? What I learned is some graders value certain aspects of a card differently and some are more conservative than others and sometimes their eye doesn't see things you see and you are pleasantly surprised. For the most part they get it right but there are clearly some head scratching results at times and that is the part of the process that is hard to reconcile. For the primary set I collect PSA is much tougher on average but that doesn't necessary mean their graders are better. Once again I think it is a toss up and no one will ever totally agree here.

I have only submitted cards to SGC once and was impressed at how quickly the phone was answered and the person I dealt with was extremely knowledgeable and on top of things. PSA grades at least 1.5 million more cards than SGC does so I don't see how they could ever be as good with the sheer volume. Beckett is based in Texas and I thought I was dealing with someone from a third world country and so in my view they are a distant last. Customer service matters and PSA really had some serious growing pains last year and it has been nice to see they are taking steps to address this. I like many had a submission that left a sour taste in my mouth and the frustration really took the fun out of submitting cards. That said when the total number of cards being graded has expanded so much it is easier said than done to streamline your operation to handle it.

I guess the answer is no that my cards in general wouldn't be graded by PSA if it weren't for the registry. That said I just saw that there were so many more high dollar cards graded by PSA and that extremely knowledgeable and wealthy collectors had gone that route so it was in my view a no brainer. Why would I try and outsmart all of these super successful collectors? I read articles on non sports cards and some of the hobbies legends and if they were going that direction it only made sense I did. I don't know why they chose PSA but they did so those following in their footsteps could either try and reinvent the wheel or follow the leader. I played follow the leader. During the nine years I have submitted cards the strangle hold on the industry has only grown stronger so I feel great about the choice I made.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

A Pop 2 went to a Pop 6 and you no longer think it is rare.

I guess the question is what is rare? I still think 6 known examples in this case is rare. If it isn't still considered rare than it is sort of rare meaning very close.

medium rare?