1865 Elysian Fields artwork....perhaps the first significant BaseBall collectible.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Ted--Please stick to T206s. The 1869 Red Stockings were purportedly the first openly professional team. The "major leagues" didn't start until 1971 with the formation of the National Association. The Red Stocking's record in 1869 was 67-0.

Jay

Hey Jay

For starters....why don't you get the year straight.....1871

I already noted that regarding the National Association when I posted my Troy Haymakers scorecards.

Perhaps you need to put on some "rose colored glasses"


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Jay

For starters....why don't you get the year straight.....1871

I already noted that regarding the National Association when I posted my Troy Haymakers scorecards.

Perhaps you need to put on some "rose colored glasses"


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Wow! Ted calling out Jay! Talk about Battle of the Titans!


I'm humbled by the 'weighty' exchange.


.

[oldjudge]

Ted-Mine was an obvious typo. Yours were blatant errors that could mislead those unfamiliar with early baseball history.

[tedzan]

Hey Jay

I'm very well aware that the Red Stockings won 57 games (lost none) in 1869.

The 21 undefeated games I noted were their record as of the date the "Big Bat" was presented to them in July 1869. As stated in
the Harper's Weekly clipping I posted.

Also, I made note (in another thread) regarding the National Association in 1871 was the actual start of "Major League" baseball.


Look, I didn't care for your snarky comment in that other thread about my positive comments regarding Mickey Mantle.

You apparently don't think much of him, and that's your prerogative.

I followed his career from 1952 - 1961. I watched him play (via TV or at Yankee Stadium) many times. And, that's how I base my
fondness for him.
You had to see him play to appreciate him.

Did you see him play during those years ?

Because if you did you would have a different opinion of him. Along with guys like Ted Williams, Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays, etc.,
Mantle was the most exciting player in BB during that period..



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[oldjudge]

Ted-I grew up in the Bronx within walking distance of Yankee Stadium. I probably saw Mantle play in person over 100 times, so my impressions are not anecdotal. I loved Berra and Skowron who I thought were clutch players. I always felt that too often in big situations Mantle struck out. Outside of baseball Mantle was a boozer and womanizer. On multiple levels, he is not the kind of player or person to idolize.
BTW, anything nice you want to say about Whitey Ford I would back up 100%. He was one of the greatest pitchers I ever saw and is and was a wonderful person off the field. He has the second lowest career ERA since the live ball era began in 1920. One of the biggest mistakes in Yankee history was not pitching Ford in game 7 of the 1960 World Series. This was after Ford had already pitched two complete game shutouts. The move also got Stengel fired.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Ted-I grew up in the Bronx within walking distance of Yankee Stadium. I probably saw Mantle play in person over 100 times, so my impressions are not anecdotal. I loved Berra and Skowron who I thought were clutch players. I always felt that too often in big situations Mantle struck out. Outside of baseball Mantle was a boozer and womanizer. On multiple levels, he is not the kind of player or person to idolize.
BTW, anything nice you want to say about Whitey Ford I would back up 100%. He was one of the greatest pitchers I ever saw and is and was a wonderful person off the field. He has the second lowest career ERA since the live ball era began in 1920. One of the biggest mistakes in Yankee history was not pitching Ford in game 7 of the 1960 World Series. This was after Ford had already pitched two complete game shutouts. The move also got Stengel fired.

Jay

As a young kid, I do not think you knew what Mickey's private life was really like. Therefore, I ask you this......every time Mickey came to bat, were you rooting for Mickey to hit
one of those "500-foot HRs" which he was very capable of doing ?
Furthermore, you are a great fan of Whitey Ford, whereas he and Billy Martin and Mantle really enjoyed the "night-life". I don't get where you're coming from.

Anyhow, here's my story. I had quite a number of conversations with Yogi Berra and Phil Rizzuto over the years. Rizzuto lived 2 blocks away from where I grew up in Hillside, NJ.
Phil would often visit us kids on Monday nights at the CYO (Catholic Youth Organization). He would "hold court"....we would listen to his stories about baseball. Interesting stories
about his teammates, and especially Mickey Mantle. He told us from 1952 to 1956, Mantle was the Man. Mantle's power and all-around game inspired his Yankees teammates.

In the 1990's, I would often meet with Yogi Berra and his wife Carmen. My older daughter Debbie lived on the same street in Montclair (NJ). The Berra's home was just 4 houses
away from her's. Wonderful people, Yogi loved talking baseball, mostly about Mickey Mantle. And especially the 1956 World Series "Perfect Game" in which Mickey running at full
speed caught Gil Hodges 440-foot drive to the Monuments in left-centerfield in the 5th inning. Berra's face just "lit-up" with excitement as he described this event.

There are many more stories that I could tell here, but I've said enough for now.

Take care,


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[triwak]

Can I interrupt this conversation to inquire, if anyone has ever seen the giant bat that was awarded to the Red Stockings, or have there ever been documents surface as to it's fate or whereabouts? Seriously. What an amazing piece of baseball memorabilia THAT would be!!

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by triwak

Can I interrupt this conversation to inquire, if anyone has ever seen the giant bat that was awarded to the Red Stockings, or have there ever been documents surface as to it's fate or whereabouts? Seriously. What an amazing piece of baseball memorabilia THAT would be!!

Ken,

That's a great question, one I've wondered about myself. I have never heard of anyone seeing it, but wouldn't that be a sight to see!