If you were starting a team today......

[egri]

Originally Posted by steve B

Williams did poorly in his one World Series. I think he was an amazing player, but Id have to accept that he wasn't exactly "clutch" at times.

He was playing injured; the week before the series started, he was hit in the elbow during an exhibition game. Besides, he crash landed a jet that the North Koreans put 250 holes in and walked away from it. I’d say that is far more “clutch” than anything that has ever happened on a ball field.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by egri

He was playing injured; the week before the series started, he was hit in the elbow during an exhibition game. Besides, he crash landed a jet that the North Koreans put 250 holes in and walked away from it. I’d say that is far more “clutch” than anything that has ever happened on a ball field.

I knew about the plane, not about the injury.


Williams was certainly among the greatest. And did have a number of clutch moments. Batting for the title instead of sitting, Hr in his last AB....

[clydepepper]

Well, if there was ever a player (and there was!) that could get from home plate to first base in 3.1 seconds and also hit a homer 565 feet, that would be the guy.


If not him, I'd go with the greatest athlete ever to play MLB, a healthy Bo Jackson.

Those two, when healthy, were the most exciting players ever IMO.

=

[steve B]

Since the original question was about who we'd pick starting a team today.

I'd go with Trout.

I have doubts about Willie and Mickey standing up to the sort of access and scrutiny the players today have to deal with. Aaron was maybe just a bit too reserved, but would be in the running. Griffey maybe just a tiny bit behind.


A big piece of todays game like it or not is PR and image, and so far Trout has got it just about right.

[brian1961]

We can splice and crunch numbers on and on about how a player did in a season, and especially a World Series. It's important, but it will not likely change anyone's mind about how they feel about how great or crummy their hero was at a given time.

You bring up Ted Williams getting hit by a pitch in a stupid exhibition game to keep the Sox sharp, while an NL playoff was being fought. That was most unfortunate, since it would be his only World Series. Then again, in '48-'49 Ted had terrific years, but failed at the crucial last game / games, respectively.

Stan Musial did not tear up the pea patch in the Series; neither did Ty Cobb or Jackie Robinson.

Mickey, as you said, had some sour World Series performances. He was injured in '55 and '61 going into the World Series. He injured himself playing golf with Tom Sturdevant in '57, when he was at his baseball peak. Mick hurt his shin badly during that golf match; I won't go into a lot of details, but Sturdevant's high-pitched laugh afterwards made Mick lose his temper on a branch in his way. The branch was actually dead, and swinging his putter at it with all his might and anger, the putter went clean through the branch and into his shin. OUCH times ten to the third power! Then, a month and a half later in World Series game 1 I believe, Red Schoendienst fell on Mickey's shoulder in a close play at second. The pain from that hit was horrible, and Mickey said as a result, he was in pain until the beginning of 1961.

Yep, Mickey had a lot of great-to-good players around him during his hey day, as did Babe and Lou. Isn't that just too bad, for you who dislike him. Or you, who constantly shame him for not taking better care of himself, even though the man literally thought he'd only live to be as old as his dad that died at 39.

I go back to what former teammate Hank Bauer said, that the man did awfully good even with all the injuries he had. He was the man. He was the big guy. He was the warrior to be feared. Almost all eyes were on Mickey Mantle at the ball game.

You're right about Tom Tresh--he was the only Yank who got to Sandy Koufax in game 1 of the '63 Series. He got to Gibby in '64, and he was the hero of '62 indeed! 'Course, none of the Yanks did well at the bat in '63, though Mr. Koufax threw one that Mickey liked in game 4 that he crushed into Chavez Ravine.

In the end, Mickey won a whole lot of bling, and he earned them all, whether carrying the Bombers to get to the big show, or coming up with the big play, or a crucial hit to break the opposing teams' backs. Which, he did so again, and again, and again, and again, and .....

Furthermore, HE MADE HIMSELF PLAY HURT MANY GAMES IN WHICH HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN THE LINE-UP.

Why would he do that? I read about this. I teared up good. 'Cause he knew there'd be a bunch of kids in the stands that were attending what might be their only game of the season to see the Yanks. And, they wanted to see one player more than any other----Mickey Mantle. Mickey did not want to disappoint a kid, and let him down. Regardless, he played. He had the trainer wrap him up like a mummy as he had to do for a decade or more, and played anyway, and gave it his best anyway. Then, when number 7 walked out of the dugout with a bat to go to the on-deck circle, everybody got excited. The excitement and anticipation grew and grew, and then, when he stepped in the batter's box, just about everybody's eyes were glued on Mickey Mantle. What was he going to do?

In a few days, another anniversary will go by of a significant event that occurred April 17, 1953 at Griffith Stadium in Washington, DC. Up in the stands were a father and his 20-year-old-son, plus just a few thousand other fans. Guess the home-town Washington Senator fans figured the Yanks would beat their team, and they guessed right.

But they missed it. Boy, did they ever miss it---Mickey slugging a Chuck Stobbs fastball 565 feet!!!! Made a huge impression on every player, fan, and pressman who was there, including the young man and his dad. That young guy thought an awful lot of Mickey, and one day became famous himself, as a country and western singer and guitar player---Roy Clark. The two later connected, and Mickey had asked Roy to play his signature song at his funeral, "Yesterday When I Was Young".

Mickey Mantle must be special to me. I put a 3-card spread of him on the cover of my E-book on a CD, Never Cheaper By the Dozen.

Yep, I'll take Mickey Mantle----EVERY TIME!!! ---- Brian Powell

[TUM301]

Out of all the players I`ve ever seen, let`s say 1966 and on, would start my team with Johnny Bench. From the original list toss up.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by TUM301

Out of all the players I`ve ever seen, let`s say 1966 and on, would start my team with Johnny Bench. From the original list toss up.

He has gone largely unappreciated but IMO the best catcher of all time. I once saw him throw three straight times to first and on the third picked off the baserunner. Remarkable arm.

[TanksAndSpartans]

As an outsider on the baseball side, its interesting to me that I haven't noticed a single argument that used sabermetrics. My understanding is that field devalues most traditional statistical measures like RBI in favor of new ones like WAR. Philosophically, I've even heard it argued that there is no such thing as clutch. I would have thought there would be some crossover between collecting and sabermetrics especially among those posting in this thread on a non-collecting topic.