What Do You Consider the First Baseball Card(s)?

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by bgar3

…..
I personally don’t care whether or not something is a baseball card, I care more about the historical significance of the subject or image..….

I think bgar3 (quoted above) summarizes it best. For me, being more a memorabilia collector than a card collector, the value of the Magnolia card has nothing to do with whether the hobby characterizes it as a card. I value it because it is a depiction of pre-Knickerbocker baseball, as well as support for the notion that the Knickerbockers original rules were more a formal codification of a game that was already being played than the creation of something entirely new.

Jay, BTW, whether you own something or not has no bearing on your assessment of the item, correct?

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

I think bgar3 (quoted above) summarizes it best. For me, being more a memorabilia collector than a card collector, the value of the Magnolia card has nothing to do with whether the hobby characterizes it as a card. I value it because it is a depiction of pre-Knickerbocker baseball, as well as support for the notion that the Knickerbockers original rules were more a formal codification of a game that was already being played than the creation of something entirely new.

Jay, BTW, whether you own something or not has no bearing on your assessment of the item, correct?

I agree with the first part. As to the second, I would never (almost never (sometimes)) let ownership affect my opinion,

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

….. I would never (almost never (sometimes)) let ownership affect my opinion,

LOL. Well said!

[Joe_G.]

I love this discussion, a busy schedule has prevented me from weighing in earlier. In the vein of being biased towards something I own, I'd like to propose an option that meets the definition many are proposing and predates N167 and the many tobacco sets that would follow. Let's just say I'm proposing an early set for honorable mention.

In the spring of 1886 Tomlinson Studio would issue cards of the Detroit baseball club. These cabinets were offered for public sale starting April 28th, 1886 (Detroit Free Press announced that they could be purchased at Tomlinson Studio). The cabinets featured personalized mounts that included the players name and position. Every player was available in portrait and action pose (most players have more than one action pose). Later Tomlinson cabinets (1887 & 1888), team cabinets in particular, were offered for sale nation wide.

Here is a sample of a few 1886 cabinets I had recently posted to another thread (three players that would remain good friends in retirement - Lady Baldwin, Sam Thompson, and Charlie Bennett).

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Joe_G.

I love this discussion, a busy schedule has prevented me from weighing in earlier. In the vein of being biased towards something I own, I'd like to propose an option that meets the definition many are proposing and predates N167 and the many tobacco sets that would follow. Let's just say I'm proposing an early set for honorable mention.

In the spring of 1886 Tomlinson Studio would issue cards of the Detroit baseball club. These cabinets were offered for public sale starting April 28th, 1886 (Detroit Free Press announced that they could be purchased at Tomlinson Studio). The cabinets featured personalized mounts that included the players name and position. Every player was available in portrait and action pose (most players have more than one action pose). Later Tomlinson cabinets (1887 & 1888), team cabinets in particular, were offered for sale nation wide.

Here is a sample of a few 1886 cabinets I had recently posted to another thread (three players that would remain good friends in retirement - Lady Baldwin, Sam Thompson, and Charlie Bennett).

Joe - I love the Tomlinson cabinets and, IMHO, they fit the description of being a baseball card. That being said, I would lean towards some of the cards that Peck and Snyder advertised in 1869, 1870 and 1871 respectively as they were obviously issued earlier - unless you feel that team cards shold be excluded from being considered. Here are ads from 1869, 1870 and 1871 respectively:

[benjulmag]

Kevin,

That 1871 ad is amazing! I don't recall seeing it before. I also don't recall seeing any of the cards of the individual players it lists. If anybody has one or has seen one, I would love to see an image of its front and verso.

The large size photographs advertised have always intrigued me. The only one I have seen (at the NYPL) is the one of the Atlantics. The condition leaves something to be desired, but it is still breathtaking to see.

If only I had a time machine...….

[barrysloate]

I just sent a dollar to Peck and Snyder and ordered the whole set. Hope they haven't run out of any of the teams.

I was aware that they also offered a large 12 x 16 imperial sized photo of each image, but to date I haven't heard of or seen a single survivor. Does anybody know if even one of these large images is still around?

I missed that Corey claims to have seen the Atlantics at the NYPL. I've seen that collection a dozen times and have no memory of it. Corey, did we ever look at it together?

[GaryPassamonte]

The last ad also describes the "Nines of 1870", including the Atlantics and Red Stocking Clubs. I presume they were still using the known P&S poses and not images of the 1870 teams?

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Kevin,

That 1871 ad is amazing! I don't recall seeing it before. I also don't recall seeing any of the cards of the individual players it lists. If anybody has one or has seen one, I would love to see an image of its front and verso.

The large size photographs advertised have always intrigued me. The only one I have seen (at the NYPL) is the one of the Atlantics. The condition leaves something to be desired, but it is still breathtaking to see.

If only I had a time machine...….

Corey-I believe the 1871 ad refers to Mort Rogers scorecards which could have been distributed by P&S.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Kevin,

That 1871 ad is amazing! I don't recall seeing it before. I also don't recall seeing any of the cards of the individual players it lists. If anybody has one or has seen one, I would love to see an image of its front and verso.

I think that the 1871 ad refers to the JA Pierce team CDVs that feature composites of the players that are listed in the ad.

There are 7 teams listed on the 1871 ad - Boston, Chicago, Olympic, Athletic, Cleveland, Rockford and Kekionga. At least 5 of these teams are known to exist and the players featured in these CDVs match up perfectly with the players named in the 1871 ad.