Questions about the hobby

[groundskeeper]

Okay I officially think PWCC is fraud.

4/9/19
1910 E98 Red Chief Bender PSA 9 MINT Black Swamp - PWCC on ebay
$4,605.00

4/6/19
1910 E98 Red Chief Bender PSA 9 MINT Black Swamp - Memory Lane Auction
$2,635.20


So an IDENTICAL card gained $2,000 (+75%) in value in THREE DAYS?

Honestly, this has gotten too scammy.

[groundskeeper]

ANOTHER inexplicable one....

PWCC ebay auction today.

T206 Walter Johnson portrait PSA 4 Sweet Cap (centered) - $6,236.99

T206 Walter Johnson portrait SGC 4 Piedmont (centered) - $2,837.90

Someone explain that to me, please.
Do PSA slabs have a $4,000 premium over SGC now?

[Throttlesteer]

I highly doubt its fraud. Yes, PWCC continues to sell things way above current market. But, I think the anomalies are usually high quality for the grade or a bidding war. The T206 Johnsons were puzzling, as I thought the SGC version was a bit nicer. Someone got a dealand someone way overpaid in my opinion. I'm more irritated that some folks think a single PWCC result that's nice for the grade means that should be the starting price for all subsequent auctions.

[groundskeeper]

I agree I would have preferred the SGC myself. 4,000 dollar spread for simultaneous auctions of near identical cards.....sorry but that is just too weird to write off as a quirk of the bidding process.

Something is fishy.

[todeen]

Someone else, a week or two ago, was complaining about the price difference between PSA and SGC. I wouldn't know, I like raw cards, but he said he occasionally flips cards and he noticed that his SGC cards haven't reached the same prices PSA cards have (for identical player/year), and have even sometimes lost value.

As for something I agreed with on a different thread - just be patient, keep searching, and good deals come along.

[Goudey77]

Winning a PWCC auction requires 20% premiums like the big houses. So just keep that in mind

[Rhotchkiss]

What happened with those two Johnson’s is just not right. I understand PSA gets more than SGC, but the PSA was inferior and pulled more than double. I am throwing the flag on that one- very fishy. As for the rest, I think there are people out there spending stupid money. The National will be telling- if you see a ton of new faces, then there is a ton of new money. I suspect that is the reason in most cases. And of course, the new money pushes the old money to reach for things.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

Winning a PWCC auction requires 20% premiums like the big houses. So just keep that in mind

What? PWCC doesn't have a buyers premium.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by groundskeeper

ANOTHER inexplicable one....

PWCC ebay auction today.

T206 Walter Johnson portrait PSA 4 Sweet Cap (centered) - $6,236.99

T206 Walter Johnson portrait SGC 4 Piedmont (centered) - $2,837.90

Someone explain that to me, please.
Do PSA slabs have a $4,000 premium over SGC now?

"Investors" want PSA.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

"Investors" want PSA.

Peter, don’t you also prefer PSA? Didn’t you just say “SGC is dead” in another thread? So why begrudge anyone, collector or otherwise, for paying a premium for PSA when they share your bias?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Peter, don’t you also prefer PSA? Didn’t you just say “SGC is dead” in another thread? So why begrudge anyone, collector or otherwise, for paying a premium for PSA when they share your bias?

Big premium, but sure why not.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by groundskeeper

ANOTHER inexplicable one....

PWCC ebay auction today.

T206 Walter Johnson portrait PSA 4 Sweet Cap (centered) - $6,236.99

T206 Walter Johnson portrait SGC 4 Piedmont (centered) - $2,837.90

Someone explain that to me, please.
Do PSA slabs have a $4,000 premium over SGC now?

You have a lot in common with Ebay sellers I see if you think that sgc Johnson was centered. A big part of the price difference was probably PSA vs SGC. But I wouldn't be surprised if the centering and eye appeal of the cards was more important to the winner of the PSA card.

In general when you see outliers like this in an auction or vcp listing take a look at the card before jumping to conclusions. More often than not I'd be willing to bet it was someone stepping up for a card with eye appeal that transcends its assigned grade.

[Peter_Spaeth]

PWCC called it "wonderfully centered"

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

PWCC called it "wonderfully centered"

As I recall, it also had alluring corners and sexy registration.

[pokerplyr80]

This is the only card I saw sold recently at the price mentioned. The centering is off left to right. Worse top to bottom. And its tilted. But yes other than that it was well centered. Just like the PSA example.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

This is the only card I saw sold recently at the price mentioned. The centering is off left to right. Worse top to bottom. And its tilted. But yes other than that it was well centered. Just like the PSA example.

id be very happy with that card at that price!

[Rhotchkiss]

PSA better centered but notice the flecks of what appears to be paper loss on the face and the upper left outline looks like ink is missing. For that reason, the SGC is nicer in my opinion. Regardless, I don’t think the PSA is x2 nicer than SGC. I guess the one thing the PSA has is the factory 649 overprint, but that’s not very uncommon/uncommon in a wajo Portrait (sorry, my phone is not uploading pics right now)

In REA, an SGC 6 Matty portrait sold for over $10k compared to a PSA 6 Matty portrait that I bought for $7800. The SGC Matty was superior to the PSA one, and my opinion, was worth the premium over the PSA one, but it was not more than double.

[Santo10Fan]

Originally Posted by groundskeeper

Okay I officially think PWCC is fraud.

4/9/19
1910 E98 Red Chief Bender PSA 9 MINT Black Swamp - PWCC on ebay
$4,605.00

4/6/19
1910 E98 Red Chief Bender PSA 9 MINT Black Swamp - Memory Lane Auction
$2,635.20


So an IDENTICAL card gained $2,000 (+75%) in value in THREE DAYS?

Honestly, this has gotten too scammy.

Hard evidence, not circumstantial, is warranted before I'd be anywhere close to considering PWCC a fraud. I look forward to its emails weekly showcasing the auctions, and suspect I am not the only one. I attribute the big returns to its' marketing and in-house grading attracting millenials. And bottom line-wise, PWCC's fees for big time cards are actually cheaper than what many small sellers would be paying ebay. It pays for itself to use an auction house with that kind of reach if ebay charges 10% compared to PWCC's 9%.

Since we're speculating here, I suspect the crypto crash might have something to do with PWCC's success and spikes on cards like, say, green Cobb portraits or Jeter foils. A lot of people were looking for a safe haven last year, and high end vintage cards sure looked good if you were on ebay and came across PWCC in 18.

Chinese billionaires may be part of the equation, but I think what you mean here is crypto. We know for a fact some bitcoin whales did make the crossover, directly, last year during the 1952 Mantle Heritage auction by Evan Mathis. Smartly, Mathis and HA got together and alerted the media, generating free marketing and exposure for the auction. The AP and ESPN picked up their announcement that a bitcoin transfer would be accepted. Evan even showed up here on this board to answer our questions. Point is, we have a proven correlation between vintage baseball cards and bitcoin. If even a dozen of those bitcoin whales moved into this hobby, you'd be contending in auctions with people who can bid many of us into the ground. Bubbles are everyday for these people.

RE: Mathis, if he made the mistake of holding on to that $2.88 million in bitcoin, today it would be worth $1.73 million.

[RCMcKenzie]

It's a bull run for sure, but you can still find bargains. You have to work harder in a bull market.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by groundskeeper

Okay I officially think PWCC is fraud.

4/9/19
1910 E98 Red Chief Bender PSA 9 MINT Black Swamp - PWCC on ebay
$4,605.00

4/6/19
1910 E98 Red Chief Bender PSA 9 MINT Black Swamp - Memory Lane Auction
$2,635.20


So an IDENTICAL card gained $2,000 (+75%) in value in THREE DAYS?

Honestly, this has gotten too scammy.

I feel for the guy who consigned to JP. Have our spin doctors justified this one yet?