Mr. Burdick's Collection at the Met!

[Jobu]

Thanks for the links Paul! Cool cards. I think the Cobb is sun-faded, not a messed up color pass.

Originally Posted by T206Collector

You can view it all - or at least 52,727 items so far uploaded - here:

And a messed up color pass Cobb:

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/413043

[/url]

[T206Collector]

If that's a color fade, it is quite uniform and straight across the top. But, maybe so...

[Jobu]

I think it was pinned up on a board in the sun and there was another card (or something) across the top that blocked the sun. If you look at the top left corner you can see the yellow is way brighter above the fade line than it is below it. Funky card though.

[trdcrdkid]

Just as an FYI for those who may not have seen it, below is a link to a post I wrote a couple of years ago about the origins of the Burdick collection. Burdick announced in the December 1, 1947 Card Collectors Bulletin that he was donating his card collection to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and over the next couple of years he began organizing his cards and sending them to the museum, while also soliciting help from CCB readers to fill in gaps in the collection. Many people sent him cards and even whole sets that he didn't have, so that while Burdick's personal collection was the core, the collection now at the Met is really a collaborative effort, with many cards contributed by other collectors. Everyone in the hobby realized that this was a big deal, and they wanted the collection to be as complete as possible. Below the link I've included two of Burdick's CCB articles, the first from the April 1, 1948 issue and the second from the October 1, 1948 issue, illustrating the support he was getting from the hobby.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=240887

April 1, 1948

October 1, 1948

[bigfanNY]

Burdick was in poor health during the time he was working to put the collection in albums and boxes for the Met. And he passed away very shortly after finishing his task.

[Leon]

Thanks for posting that, David. It has been quite a while since I have added any CCB's to the collection. ALthough yesterday I did get an original 1967 ACC, as I only have a copy reprint used for daily use.

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

Just as an FYI for those who may not have seen it, below is a link to a post I wrote a couple of years ago about the origins of the Burdick collection. Burdick announced in the December 1, 1947 Card Collectors Bulletin that he was donating his card collection to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and over the next couple of years he began organizing his cards and sending them to the museum, while also soliciting help from CCB readers to fill in gaps in the collection. Many people sent him cards and even whole sets that he didn't have, so that while Burdick's personal collection was the core, the collection now at the Met is really a collaborative effort, with many cards contributed by other collectors. Everyone in the hobby realized that this was a big deal, and they wanted the collection to be as complete as possible. Below the link I've included two of Burdick's CCB articles, the first from the April 1, 1948 issue and the second from the October 1, 1948 issue, illustrating the support he was getting from the hobby.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=240887

April 1, 1948

October 1, 1948

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Jobu

The yellow is way brighter above the fade line than it is below it.

I think this is a optical illusion. Yellow contrasted to red will appear brighter than yellow contrasted to orange. If you cover the red and orange and just focus on the yellow line, it appears to me to be the same color and brightness.

[yanksfan09]

If you look closely on the top of the Cobb, you can see the red rectangle area is shifted to the right. On the upper left corner there is a slight gap of just light orange near the black border line, and in the upper left the red extends past the border line into white border. Looks like it must have been a print anomally.

[HercDriver]

I love the line in there about the T206 Wagner, that says it's in such demand, that several copies could easily be sold at $25 or more. Jeez...

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by HercDriver

I love the line in there about the T206 Wagner, that says it's in such demand, that several copies could easily be sold at $25 or more. Jeez...

Even more amazing is that John Wagner had his T206 Wagner mixed in with his duplicates and almost inadvertently traded it away. Is it actually possible as a serious collector to have a T206 Wagner without even knowing it?

[T206Collector]

I love seeing John Wagner here. One of the earlier TTM autograph seekers on pre-war cards, my pet theory is that Burdick traded his T201 Leifield to Wagner, who then sent it to Lefty to be signed.

[Jobu]

I disagree, I think the top left is yellow, not orange. And the evidence is that the red and the orange on the upper left are perfectly aligned, which is because they are the same layer. For the upper left corner to actually be orange, the border of the orange pass would have to be non-linear and shoot way left at the top, which it didn't do because that isn't how the printing worked. The fact that the yellow is shifted left explains why there is a light pink slice down the right --- the yellowless red on the right faded to pink, the red and the yellow overlap faded to orange, and the yellow on the left faded to a lighter yellow. The second card posted just shows that there are two sun-faded Cobbs.

Fun discussion, even if we are derailing this thread a bit.

Originally Posted by yanksfan09

If you look closely on the top of the Cobb, you can see the red rectangle area is shifted to the right. On the upper left corner there is a slight gap of just light orange near the black border line, and in the upper left the red extends past the border line into white border. Looks like it must have been a print anomally.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Jobu

the evidence is that the red and the orange on the upper left are perfectly aligned, which is because they are the same layer.

Except the red and the orange on the upper right are definitely not aligned, with the red bleeding over the border, and the pink staying within the border.

The sharply focused horizontal contrast between the red and the orange is much more likely to reflect the sudden stop of an ink pass than the partial and consistent sun damage required to make that happen.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Jobu

I disagree, I think the top left is yellow, not orange. And the evidence is that the red and the orange on the upper left are perfectly aligned, which is because they are the same layer. For the upper left corner to actually be orange, the border of the orange pass would have to be non-linear and shoot way left at the top, which it didn't do because that isn't how the printing worked. The fact that the yellow is shifted left explains why there is a light pink slice down the right --- the yellowless red on the right faded to pink, the red and the yellow overlap faded to orange, and the yellow on the left faded to a lighter yellow. The second card posted just shows that there are two sun-faded Cobbs.

Fun discussion, even if we are derailing this thread a bit.

Interesting, but unlikely observations...
Were Sun to bleach/fade ink, it would not pause to decide to attack red-only pigments, but would equally take or lighten sections not colored by the red pass. So you would see the greys and black of the uni also heavily faded, the orange of his hair, certainly to a degree that would be obvious in comparison to other red background cobbs. Even the borders would show difference in tone from sections that were unexposed to heavy enough sunlight to remove a layer of color.
To boot, I've seen at least 4 examples of the 'orange' cobb including mine and the Burdick example, as well as a number of other T206 orange variations from their usual red. LOTG has a nice Chance up right now in their auction that also either got a lighter than usual pass of red or missed altogether.

It will take time for the community to come to agreement, just like with this Aaron, but they'll get there.

[Jobu]

There are definitely cards that are missing color passes and I am not saying that there aren't. And T206 inks weren't always mixed the same either - probably the most famous examples of this are the Hindu red background portraits that are actually red-orange. However, those cards are red-orange with strong colors throughout the card.

On T206, the red ink is the "weakest" - it is the first to change when a card is faded or exposed to chemicals. Black is the most resistant and stays fine through a lot of punishment. The fact that the yellow along the left border fades from top to bottom at the same point the red does makes this a pretty rock solid case of fading. I think all of the colors on both of these Cobbs (minus the red strip at the top of Burdick's) are a bit washed out (though unevenly watched out, as the colors don't fade at the same rate), which suggests sun exposure.

Here are more examples of cards that the sun has washed out only parts of and which are not print goofs. One Cobb clearly shows the outline of an album hinge on the corner. The other Cobb shows that there was something that covered the top and a sliver of the right side, though some light still was able to get under it. The others either had some sort of a clip, tape, or something else that protected that one section and made it fade slower than the rest.

Cobb scrapbook holder.JPG

Cobb partly faded.JPG

Burke sun a.jpg

Tape 2.1.jpg

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Jobu

There are definitely cards that are missing color passes and I am not saying that there aren't. And T206 inks weren't always mixed the same either - probably the most famous examples of this are the Hindu red background portraits that are actually red-orange. However, those cards are red-orange with strong colors throughout the card.

On T206, the red ink is the "weakest" - it is the first to change when a card is faded or exposed to chemicals. Black is the most resistant and stays fine through a lot of punishment. The fact that the yellow along the left border fades from top to bottom at the same point the red does makes this a pretty rock solid case of fading. I think all of the colors on both of these Cobbs (minus the red strip at the top of Burdick's) are a bit washed out (though unevenly watched out, as the colors don't fade at the same rate), which suggests sun exposure.

Here are more examples of cards that the sun has washed out only parts of and which are not print goofs. One Cobb clearly shows the outline of an album hinge on the corner. The other Cobb shows that there was something that covered the top and a sliver of the right side, though some light still was able to get under it. The others either had some sort of a clip, tape, or something else that protected that one section and made it fade slower than the rest.

Attachment 348603

Attachment 348605

Attachment 348602

Attachment 348604

There are definitely cards that are faded and I am not saying that there aren't ().
I'm just grateful the sun left her sunkissed imprint on the cheeks and lips of these fine young men when all else was blast asunder....