OT: Derek Jeter Forgeries On Counterfeit Cards

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

And another smh...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Upper-...kAAOSwB0hcYxiw

At least this seller took the item down and seemed concerned...

That seller usually sells good stuff, so I have to assume they were fooled also.

Hopefully that seller will contact the person they purchased it from.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Check out the below link for Sold Auctions on Sandy Koufax "2000 SP Chirography" autographs.

Some of these are from the same sellers who sold the Jeter forgeries.

I am not as versed in Sandy's autograph as some of you are, but some of these do not look good and neither do the cards.


For some reason the link isn't working, but if you do a search on "Sandy Koufax 2000 SP Autograph" in Completed/Sold auctions you'll find them.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Solid links.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-SP-AUT...kAAOSwWKpchG0j

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Upper-...p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Upper-...p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-TEAM-T...p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Upper-...p2047675.l2557

[thetruthisoutthere]

Ebay seller Tntnorthnj has sold eight of these recently.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Upper-...p2047675.l2557




TNTKoufax-1.jpg

TNTKoufax-2.jpg

[Yastrzemski Sports]

They also seem to have a large supply of 2009 Harper autos, 2000 Kobe autos, 2003 mays autos, 1992 Ali autos, 1997 mays autos, 2001 Unitas autos, 2001 starr autos, 2003 pujols autos and 2000 Skybox Brady rookies to go along with the Jeter autos and 2017 judge blank back cards. Looks like thousands $$ per month in sales.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

They also seem to have a large supply of 2009 Harper autos, 2000 Kobe autos, 2003 mays autos, 1992 Ali autos, 1997 mays autos, 2001 Unitas autos, 2001 starr autos, 2003 pujols autos and 2000 Skybox Brady rookies to go along with the Jeter autos and 2017 judge blank back cards. Looks like thousands $$ per month in sales.

Yes they do, Adam.

I noticed the Ali on a so-called Classic card.

Thank you for the input, Adam.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

I have a personal stake in this. I purchased a card from them in early 2017. Here’s the receipt for $105 attached. This was 2 years ago.

I put the card away for a couple of months and didn’t think much of it since it was a pack certified card. Never crossed my mind that it wasn’t real until I took the card to BGS a couple of months later. They returned it to me and I was shocked. It was already past the date of possible return so I just wrote it off as a loss. It has nagged me ever since.

The timing of your post couldn’t be any more perfect. That card sat on a shelf in my store until today. I received a call this afternoon from the Hall of Fame. They are putting together a card exhibit and wanted an example of a counterfeit card to put in it. I dropped off the card with the rejection from BGS. I hope they put this card in their exhibit for everyone to see. It helps to put me at ease when I think that some good will come from it and I can consider it a donation to education.

Thank you for your post and your work on this matter. I am new to the boards but this is one of the reasons I joined. After seeing Mannys work with the T206 autos I thought this was a good place to keep up with the hobby and maybe add a thing or two. You have done a great amount of good in bringing this to light.

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Yes they do, Adam.

I noticed the Ali on a so-called Classic card.

Thank you for the input, Adam.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

They also seem to have a large supply of 2009 Harper autos, 2000 Kobe autos, 2003 mays autos, 1992 Ali autos, 1997 mays autos, 2001 Unitas autos, 2001 starr autos, 2003 pujols autos and 2000 Skybox Brady rookies to go along with the Jeter autos and 2017 judge blank back cards. Looks like thousands $$ per month in sales.

Yep.

It extends to:

2000 Koufax Chirography Autos.

2000 Kobe Ovation.

2003 Mays Topps Legends.

The same sellers have been selling these in numbers.

I am sure there are other cards.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Same sellers.

Just a small sampling.




KobeAllSellers-1.jpg

[Kco]

I can talk from the industry side on this issue a little bit as I was with Steiner Sports for nearly a decade. I can’t talk to Upper Decks policies regarding forgeries or infringements but saying Steiner Sports doesn’t care would be an overstatement and probably an oversimplification.

Actually, they do care, they are just limited in what they can do. From my time there running e-commerce, When blatant fakes were posted on eBay or other stores and brought to the attention of the right people, we flagged and contacted eBay to have items removed. As for websites we found selling fake or questionable items, C&D letters were drafted and sent to the sites owners. Unfortunately as you can imagine, there are literally millions of Steiner Sports items on the marketplace from all different eras, and it’s virtually impossible to go after every item and listing. It’s part of why each of these bigger companies always encourage you to buy direct or from a licensed retailer to ensure legitimacy.

I’m also talking to what I know from my time there, which ended in 2014, but when I was there we did in fact do what we could to stop blatant fakes and forgeries. Can’t really say what their practice is these days

[Kco]

Additionally, it’s a big piece of the reason why Steiner moved to individual numbered holograms, since the generic ones had a propensity to fall off over time and were easily swapped to a fake item unfortunately.

I’m also not saying that any of these companies do enough, but it’s a massive resource allocation from a personnel stand point.

Look at the recent influx of Tom Brady fake memorabilia with legitimate appearing Holograms. They even lifted real hologram IDs to use on fake product, as I said VERY difficult to chase it all down.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Kco

I can talk from the industry side on this issue a little bit as I was with Steiner Sports for nearly a decade. I can’t talk to Upper Decks policies regarding forgeries or infringements but saying Steiner Sports doesn’t care would be an overstatement and probably an oversimplification.

Actually, they do care, they are just limited in what they can do. From my time there running e-commerce, When blatant fakes were posted on eBay or other stores and brought to the attention of the right people, we flagged and contacted eBay to have items removed. As for websites we found selling fake or questionable items, C&D letters were drafted and sent to the sites owners. Unfortunately as you can imagine, there are literally millions of Steiner Sports items on the marketplace from all different eras, and it’s virtually impossible to go after every item and listing. It’s part of why each of these bigger companies always encourage you to buy direct or from a licensed retailer to ensure legitimacy.

I’m also talking to what I know from my time there, which ended in 2014, but when I was there we did in fact do what we could to stop blatant fakes and forgeries. Can’t really say what their practice is these days

Sorry, Kevin, I am not letting them off the hook.

[Kco]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Sorry, Kevin, I am not letting them off the hook.

Chris, nor should you. I’m not defending their current lack of activity, I wish they did more to protect the brand and their customers. I’m just explaining how it worked when I was with them for any insight or provides as a whole.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Kco

It’s part of why each of these bigger companies always encourage you to buy direct or from a licensed retailer to ensure legitimacy

I appreciate you explaining.

I have heard others make the point above and it is puzzling to me. Why bother even putting on a hologram if "the only safe place to buy" is direct from Steiner? What about all the legit resellers who purchase dealer bulk from Steiner? This screws them, doesn't it? And it doesn't say much about a collector's ability to sell down the road on the secondary market.

I know it is not easily solved and a never-ending game of whack-a-mole. But I believe these companies must be very aggressive in policing their brand. If the fake sticker sellers keep getting wiped out on ebay enough times, they will eventually move onto something else.

[Kco]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

I appreciate you explaining.

I have heard others make the point above and it is puzzling to me. Why bother even putting on a hologram if "the only safe place to buy" is direct from Steiner? What about all the legit resellers who purchase dealer bulk from Steiner? This screws them, doesn't it? And it doesn't say much about a collector's ability to sell down the road on the secondary market.

I know it is not easily solved and a never-ending game of whack-a-mole. But I believe these companies must be very aggressive in policing their brand. If the fake sticker sellers keep getting wiped out on ebay enough times, they will eventually move onto something else.

There more recent lack of any activity bothers me as well, while I was there we at least actively attempted to track these down and rid them from the industry the best we could. The reason they always say buy direct or from an authorized dealer that is purchasing at wholesale is for chain of custody on the item.

On the flip side I understand most people’s point of view of why bother if it’s technically meaningless. There is no perfect answer as we all know their are plenty of unscrupulous people out there looking for a way to make easy money and take advantage of the trust behind a reputable COA. Unfortunately there is no easy fix, short of holograms that ALSO match to pictures of the exact item online.