Do Roger Maris or Albert Belle belong in the HOF

[rhettyeakley]

I'm comfortable with neither being in but I think Belle is the more deserving of the two (even with the nostalgia factor going for Roger Maris). I wouldn't be overly oupset if Belle eventually gets in though.

Honestly, of the guys in that "limbo" state where they don't quite have the numbers to justify inclusion I'd rather see a Dale Murphy or someone like that get in before those two.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't understand the votes in favor of Maris other than romanticism.


Hall of Fame Statistics





Black Ink
Batting - 18 (132), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink
Batting - 57 (461), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 89 (205), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 22 (679), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS
Right Field (55th):
38.2 career WAR / 32.3 7yr-peak WAR / 35.2 JAWS
Average HOF RF (out of 26):
71.4 career WAR / 42.1 7yr-peak WAR / 56.8 JAWS

[BearBailey]

Both are no from me.

[russkcpa]

Roger Maris -YES
MLB must also recognize his 61 HR's as the single season record
Maris was a great man and a great athlete

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't understand the votes in favor of Maris other than romanticism.


Hall of Fame Statistics





Black Ink
Batting - 18 (132), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink
Batting - 57 (461), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 89 (205), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 22 (679), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS
Right Field (55th):
38.2 career WAR / 32.3 7yr-peak WAR / 35.2 JAWS
Average HOF RF (out of 26):
71.4 career WAR / 42.1 7yr-peak WAR / 56.8 JAWS

I had to look up Romanticism but I agree.

[mantlefan]

Roger for sure. I mean if you're voting Harold Baines in, not including Maris is a travesty. Toss out the Roid guys and he stands alone at 61 homers in a season. That has to mean something.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by mantlefan

Roger for sure. I mean if you're voting Harold Baines in, not including Maris is a travesty. Toss out the Roid guys and he stands alone at 61 homers in a season. That has to mean something.

Thats the biggest problem with undeserving players like Baines getting in the HOF, people use it to justify other undeserving players getting in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Thats the biggest problem with undeserving players like Baines getting in the HOF, people use it to justify other undeserving players getting in.

Yep. The slippery slope argument. But as a great judge said, Just because there's a slippery slope, you don't have to ski it to the bottom.

[Mike D.]

My understanding that the Hall has a guideline (not a rule) that says a players entire career should be considered, not a single game or season.

I don't feel either player belongs. Lots of more deserving players who had more career value without being Baines-style compilers (and agree we should never use a universally panned selection to justify other bad picks).

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Baines: 2866 h, 1299 r, 384 hr, 1628 rbi, .289 ba
Edgar: 2247 h, 1219 r, 309 hr, 1261 rbi, .309 ba
From the time it was announced, people have been outraged by Baines induction. At the same time people have been outraged that it took Edgar this long to get in. Baines numbers are actually HOF range while Edgar’s fall very short. Maybe Baines can stop being the poster boy for undeserving HOF inductees. He may not belong but he belongs long before Edgar.

Originally Posted by Jim65

Thats the biggest problem with undeserving players like Baines getting in the HOF, people use it to justify other undeserving players getting in.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Baines: 2866 h, 1299 r, 384 hr, 1628 rbi, .289 ba
Edgar: 2247 h, 1219 r, 309 hr, 1261 rbi, .309 ba
From the time it was announced, people have been outraged by Baines induction. At the same time people have been outraged that it took Edgar this long to get in. Baines numbers are actually HOF range while Edgar’s fall very short. Maybe Baines can stop being the poster boy for undeserving HOF inductees. He may not belong but he belongs long before Edgar.

Baines played almost 800 more games, so it should be expected he'd have more hits, hr and rbi's.

Baines 38.7 WAR, OPS+ 121, OPS 820
Edgar 68.7 WAR, OPS+ 147, OPS 933

Edgar was better.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mantlefan

Roger for sure. I mean if you're voting Harold Baines in, not including Maris is a travesty. Toss out the Roid guys and he stands alone at 61 homers in a season. That has to mean something.

He stood alone for decades and never got even half the vote.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't understand the votes in favor of Maris other than romanticism.

Then call me a "Roman-tic".....even though I'm a Greek

I'm probably one of the few here who are lucky to have seen Roger play (1957 - 1968). And you have had to see him play to appreciate his all-around performance.
Especially in 1961. Just like Mantle, Roger was a just a "country boy". The NY media was unreal that year to both of them. Mantle (after 10 years in NY) was able to
deal with the media. But to Roger, the media was unbearable.

Look, throwing out numbers (stats) does not really tell you the true story. And, given the fact that there are some already in the BB Hall Of Fame whose credentials
are less than Roger's......my vote is a resounding YES.

In 1965, Roger continued playing the game although he was suffering from a break in his hand that had been misdiagnosed. The best thing that happened to Roger
at that time in his career was being traded to the St Louis Cardinals.

And, if "numbers" are you game....check-out Roger's performance in the 1967 World Series !

That's it....I said my piece.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[88horsepower]

For me, it's a no go for either. I love Maris and think his contributions to the history of the game are remarkable, but his career didn't provide enough overall to garner enshrinement. Belle could have been had he not been such a jerk and struggled with health-related issues late. He was truly a feared hitter.