Thoughts on Third Party Graders?

[Yastrzemski Sports]

PSA is the best for old cards. But you do see a lot of auction companies using SGC now because the turn around times are so much better.

PSA or BGS is good for newer cards. In some cases BGS is preferred.

[Dpeck100]

My primary goal when I submit a card for grading is to increase its value. If you are going to invest additional funds into a collectible you own you certainly want to try and recoup your investment and then have some return on it. I do send in a few cards where I know I probably will lose but not many.

PSA dominates in general but there are obviously loads of cards in BGS and SGC holders that go for big money so you need to make the decision that best suites your interests. With vintage card collectors, virtually no one considers BVG as their first choice but they might choose SGC and on a modern card SGC would be their last choice.

I made a conscious decision early on to build my collection in PSA slabs as they are the third party grader with the strongest brand and you can generally assume that if you start collecting a certain set that additional submissions will occur and you now have a more active chance to build your sets or fill spots in your collection.

There are very few industries that exist where one participant has so much market share. In the card grading world it does and PSA is the dominating force. There is no getting around that point. People can debate all kinds of factors in regards to the companies but market share is just a real world stat that can't be disputed.

The public has truly embraced graded collectibles so I would choose the route that best works for you and go with it.

[Rhotchkiss]

Case in point (no pun intended) - check out the two e90-2 Wagners in REA. They are both graded 4 - one by PSA, one by SGC. In my opinion, the SGC is the superior card, yet it is currently sitting at $1,000 less than it’s PSA counterpart.

People will pay more for the PSA flip (case), even if the card is inferior to one in an SGC case. I will take the superior card for less in an SGC case all day long on vintage (pre 1920 cards), especially if it’s rare. If I collected “new” cards (i.e., 1930 and newer), I would want the card in s PSA flip just bc the cards are commodities and the market values these commodities more in a PSA flip.

Also, I just trust SGC’s authentication skills more on the really old stuff.

BTW- I own neither Wagner.

[Leon]

I was looking at those Wags too. People are idiots.
If it is a registry card then PSA. If not, then I would go with someone else. Personally, I won't submit to PSA again as I don't think they grade as well as the other 2. And even though I don't think they grade as well as SGC or BVG their marketing apparently makes up for it. People are idiots. Buy the holder LOL

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Case in point (no pun intended) - check out the two e90-2 Wagners in REA. They are both graded 4 - one by PSA, one by SGC. In my opinion, the SGC is the superior card, yet it is currently sitting at $1,000 less than it’s PSA counterpart.

People will pay more for the PSA flip (case), even if the card is inferior to one in an SGC case. I will take the superior card for less in an SGC case all day long on vintage (pre 1920 cards), especially if it’s rare. If I collected “new” cards (i.e., 1930 and newer), I would want the card in s PSA flip just bc the cards are commodities and the market values these commodities more in a PSA flip.

Also, I just trust SGC’s authentication skills more on the really old stuff.

BTW- I own neither Wagner.

[AGuinness]

While there are many threads about TPGs on the board, I think it's useful every so often to re-ignite the discussion as things evolve and change. In the past six months, just look at the various threads here and on BO about trimmed cards, forgeries, etc. in slabs. Plus, grading criteria seem to change over time, and there are changes in flips, slabs, etc. It's useful to reexamine things from time to time.
That said, the most universal advice in the debate (which is hammered on here and rightfully so) is "buy the card and not the slab." And part of that includes taking responsibility for understanding the issue, doing your research and drawing your own conclusions from the photos (or from a first-hand view if you go to a show, LCS, etc.). Another aspect is to develop your own preferences on what you want with centering, wear, etc. in the issues you're looking for.
If you can hone your skills on pegging condition, understand the card issue's red flags and adhere to your own preferences and values, it will matter so much less what company sealed the card in plastic.

[ToddW.]

I've been looking into this quite a bit, and certainly there are lots of examples that deviate from the norm. But one aspect that continues to confuse me is why there isn't significant cross-over investment activity. A few points/questions:

- It seems to be agreed by most that graded-PSA increases resale value (and there are plenty of examples of that).

- Some people assert SGC is the "better / more consistent" grader. I don't have a view on that necessarily, but I have seen (and own) plenty examples of SGC cards that clearly look "better" (to me) than comparably graded PSA cards.

- If we assume the first points are correct, wouldn't an opportunity to buy SGC, convert to PSA and resell be an easy decision (even including costs of regrading or converting)?

But it doesn't seem like it. I've seen many "cross-over" type threads on various forums where the grade from PSA was lower than an SGC grade. Not all the times, but that seems to be the case more often than not. Which prompts all sorts of questions. Is there a significant difference between eye-appeal (how collectors might view a card) and technical grading where one company is harsher than another on certain aspect that are irrelevant to eye-appeal? If there is a sense that a card has been graded by SGC (sent in SGC slab), does PSA grade it lower intentionally? Doesn't seem like that could merely be the result of marketing and market dominance. There is more there, it would seem. I ask because I have a number of SGC slabs that look better than many of their PSA counterparts, and have thought about crossing them over (for registry and consistency), but worry about the PSA grade. At the end of the day the card doesn't change and if I own it I wanted it, but it seems like it would effect investment results.

Now, left out of this is authenticity discussions for older cards. I can't speak to that, but it seems like some/many believe SGC is better in this area. That would further support that cross-over opportunity should be even more desirable. Get a better chance at an "authentic" then cross-over for gain.

I don't know the answers, but it seems like there is something that isn't explained (or at least I don't understand). Yes, buy the card is easy, but there are lots of factors to consider.

[DeanH3]

I'm firmly believe that PSA is very reluctant to cross deserving SGC cards at the same grade. Lower grade cards (1-3) do have a better shot. But mid grade and higher, good luck.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Leon

I was looking at those Wags too. People are idiots.
If it is a registry card then PSA. If not, then I would go with someone else. Personally, I won't submit to PSA again as I don't think they grade as well as the other 2. And even though I don't think they grade as well as SGC or BVG their marketing apparently makes up for it. People are idiots. Buy the holder LOL

yes, people are idiots. But there is no disputing that PSA brings the bucks. And that is why people submit to them over and over again.