OT but front page worthy Jordan card ebay

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

i am mostly a vintage collector, but I still don't get the stance on here that vintage manufactured rarities were somehow pure and good and honest, while the same thing in the modern hobby is horrible.

Modern collectors know what the deal is in that the chances are extremely slim of hitting a big money chase card. Collectors 80-90 years ago did not realize they were getting scammed into continually buying product in a near futile attempt to complete the set.

Oh I agree with you. I think what Goudey did was downright deceitful. At least Topps has the odds of finding hits on their box, much like the odds you see when playing McDonald’s Monopoly or a scratch-off.

The problem with this site is some folks try to make statements and other dudes read into them and assign value judgements to them. I don’t remember anyone arguing that one was good and honest and one was horrible. My personal argument was that they were motivated by different underlying dynamics, and therefore, not directly comparable.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah who said anything favorable about short prints or skip numbering? Different -- not trying to create value -- not superior.

But I still don't see why intentionally making a few green copies of a card makes it so desirable.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Oh I agree with you. I think what Goudey did was downright deceitful. At least Topps has the odds of finding hits on their box, much like the odds you see when playing McDonald’s Monopoly or a scratch-off.

The problem with this site is some folks try to make statements and other dudes read into them and assign value judgements to them. I don’t remember anyone arguing that one was good and honest and one was horrible. My personal argument was that they were motivated by different underlying dynamics, and therefore, not directly comparable.

As someone who works full-time in the hobby and has collected everything, I've noticed a sense of arrogance among some vintage collectors who often mock and demean the modern side of the hobby. It's particularly troublesome because most "shiny card" collectors are very respectful of vintage. Fortunately, I'm seeing less of this arrogance as the years go on.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Oh I agree with you. I think what Goudey did was downright deceitful. At least Topps has the odds of finding hits on their box, much like the odds you see when playing McDonald’s Monopoly or a scratch-off.

The problem with this site is some folks try to make statements and other dudes read into them and assign value judgements to them. I don’t remember anyone arguing that one was good and honest and one was horrible. My personal argument was that they were motivated by different underlying dynamics, and therefore, not directly comparable.

I’ve watched kids in card shops and card shows rip open a pack, flip through the cards, and throw away the entire contents of the pack just because there was no autographed, diamond encrusted, jersey card with MLB logo on it. It appears to me that these hidden inserts have become the entire hobby, and base cards are just pack-filler. I think this difference alone is enough to put the Goudey comparison to rest. One sleezy gum company completely left a card out of a set 85 years ago. No one here is saying that’s ok, but I don’t see how it relates to the current state of modern cards. Those kids bought more packs in efforts to complete their sets, not in search of a 1/1 card that they hoped would pay for college. At worse, they ended up with a duplicate and a fresh piece of gum. The motivations of the collectors were far different, irrespective of the motivation of the card company, which is always money.

I think this Jordan card is particularly annoying to the vintage collector because there doesn’t seem to be anything really special about the card other than rarity. It’s not a rookie, or even an early Jordan card. It’s not from an all-time set. It’s not autographed. It’s not some spectacular image. It’s just a card that a company printed 10 of. That’s it. You can’t blame a collector for imagining all of the amazing cards they could buy with that money, and being stunned that someone would spend it on this rare, if unspectacular Jordan card. I’m sure that vintage guys grumble when an LBJ rookie sells for crazy money, but they will usually conceed that a 1/1 LBJ rookie is a special card. This Jordan just leaves some heads scratching.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by orly57

I’ve watched kids in card shops and card shows rip open a pack, flip through the cards, and throw away the entire contents of the pack just because there was no autographed, diamond encrusted, jersey card with MLB logo on it. It appears to me that these hidden inserts have become the entire hobby, and base cards are just pack-filler. I think this difference alone is enough to put the Goudey comparison to rest. One sleezy gum company completely left a card out of a set 85 years ago. No one here is saying that’s ok, but I don’t see how it relates to the current state of modern cards. Those kids bought more packs in efforts to complete their sets, not in search of a 1/1 card that they hoped would pay for college. At worse, they ended up with a duplicate and a fresh piece of gum. The motivations of the collectors were far different, irrespective of the motivation of the card company, which is always money.



I think this Jordan card is particularly annoying to the vintage collector because there doesn’t seem to be anything really special about the card other than rarity. It’s not a rookie, or even an early Jordan card. It’s not from an all-time set. It’s not autographed. It’s not some spectacular image. It’s just a card that a company printed 10 of. That’s it. You can’t blame a collector for imagining all of the amazing cards they could buy with that money, and being stunned that someone would spend it on this rare, if unspectacular Jordan card. I’m sure that vintage guys grumble when an LBJ rookie sells for crazy money, but they will usually conceed that a 1/1 LBJ rookie is a special card. This Jordan just leaves some heads scratching.

Idk. PMG green has turned out to be a Holy Grail set. It sometimes works that way in cards.

More crazy to me is $1000 for a Vlad Jr auto card . Could be in a semi star/common box like his dad in 5 yrs!!!


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[Yastrzemski Sports]

I’d like to find that common box. Vlad sr didn’t have a major league rookie auto but his rookie Refractor rarely sells under $300.

Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake

Idk. PMG green has turned out to be a Holy Grail set. It sometimes works that way in cards.

More crazy to me is $1000 for a Vlad Jr auto card . Could be in a semi star/common box like his dad in 5 yrs!!!


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by orly57

I’ve watched kids in card shops and card shows rip open a pack, flip through the cards, and throw away the entire contents of the pack just because there was no autographed, diamond encrusted, jersey card with MLB logo on it. It appears to me that these hidden inserts have become the entire hobby, and base cards are just pack-filler. I think this difference alone is enough to put the Goudey comparison to rest. One sleezy gum company completely left a card out of a set 85 years ago. No one here is saying that’s ok, but I don’t see how it relates to the current state of modern cards. Those kids bought more packs in efforts to complete their sets, not in search of a 1/1 card that they hoped would pay for college. At worse, they ended up with a duplicate and a fresh piece of gum. The motivations of the collectors were far different, irrespective of the motivation of the card company, which is always money.

I think this Jordan card is particularly annoying to the vintage collector because there doesn’t seem to be anything really special about the card other than rarity. It’s not a rookie, or even an early Jordan card. It’s not from an all-time set. It’s not autographed. It’s not some spectacular image. It’s just a card that a company printed 10 of. That’s it. You can’t blame a collector for imagining all of the amazing cards they could buy with that money, and being stunned that someone would spend it on this rare, if unspectacular Jordan card. I’m sure that vintage guys grumble when an LBJ rookie sells for crazy money, but they will usually conceed that a 1/1 LBJ rookie is a special card. This Jordan just leaves some heads scratching.

Don't forget it's also altered.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Don't forget it's also altered.

It's the only altered one. Talk about rare!

[orly57]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

It's the only altered one. Talk about rare!

This was funny no matter what side of the aisle you are on.

[Rhotchkiss]

I just read this entire thread. I don’t collect modern. I don’t even like modern-day baseball. I own two cards that are newer than 1921 (the infamous 33 Lajoie and a 35 Nagurski). I love old, I love rare, and I love it most if its 100+ years. I hate when I take my kids to shows and they want to spend $100 on some lottery box instead of buying a mid-grade Clemente or something similar (my kids are not into the 100+ year stuff). All that said, I am glad that New cards are popular and valuable. It’s good for all aspects/areas of the “hobby”/asset class.

So you modern guys, keep collecting, or playing the lottery, or whatever you do. You are good for us old-stick-in-the-mud vintage collectors. You are good for cards. You keep the hobby new and you help keep cards valuable. I don’t understand your taste, but I don’t need to understand. We are all on the same team, look at the same auctions, attend the same shows, search the Internet for like-minded friends on forums like these. Go Sports Cards!

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I just read this entire thread. I don’t collect modern. I don’t even like modern-day baseball. I own two cards that are newer than 1921 (the infamous 33 Lajoie and a 35 Nagurski). I love old, I love rare, and I love it most if its 100+ years. I hate when I take my kids to shows and they want to spend $100 on some lottery box instead of buying a mid-grade Clemente or something similar (my kids are not into the 100+ year stuff). All that said, I am glad that New cards are popular and valuable. It’s good for all aspects/areas of the “hobby”/asset class.

So you modern guys, keep collecting, or playing the lottery, or whatever you do. You are good for us old-stick-in-the-mud vintage collectors. You are good for cards. You keep the hobby new and you help keep cards valuable. I don’t understand your taste, but I don’t need to understand. We are all on the same team, look at the same auctions, attend the same shows, search the Internet for like-minded friends on forums like these. Go Sports Cards!

Well said.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by orly57

It’s not from an all-time set.

Most of your post was spot on, but this one is not. To modern collectors, the Precious Metal Gems set definitely qualifies.

Previous sales:
Jordan Red /90 PSA AUTH: $21,500 sold by BBCE in 2016
Barkley Red /90 PSA 8: $3,250 sold by PWCC in 2018
Kobe Championship /50 PSA 7: $3400 by PWCC in 2017
Glenn Robinson Green /10 PSA 7: sold for $950 in 2017 and $1400 in 2018
Sean Elliott Green /10 PSA 8: sold for $1000 in 2017
Ron Mercer Green /10 PSA 7: sold for $600 twice
Kevin Willis Red /90 raw: sold for $200 on COMC
Grant Hill Red /90 raw: sold for $600 on COMC
Voshon Leonard Red /90 raw: sold for $120 on COMC
Antoine Walker Red /90 raw: sold for $210 on COMC
Jermaine O'Neal Red /90 raw: sold for $150 on COMC

As you can see, even the /90 red versions are highly sought after for common players. And the condition sensitivity isn't near as important due to the rarity. If you don't buy the card when it comes up for auction, no guarantee it comes around again.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Most of your post was spot on, but this one is not. To modern collectors, the Precious Metal Gems set definitely qualifies.

Previous sales:
Jordan Red /90 PSA AUTH: $21,500 sold by BBCE in 2016
Barkley Red /90 PSA 8: $3,250 sold by PWCC in 2018
Kobe Championship /50 PSA 7: $3400 by PWCC in 2017
Glenn Robinson Green /10 PSA 7: sold for $950 in 2017 and $1400 in 2018
Sean Elliott Green /10 PSA 8: sold for $1000 in 2017
Ron Mercer Green /10 PSA 7: sold for $600 twice
Kevin Willis Red /90 raw: sold for $200 on COMC
Grant Hill Red /90 raw: sold for $600 on COMC
Voshon Leonard Red /90 raw: sold for $120 on COMC
Antoine Walker Red /90 raw: sold for $210 on COMC
Jermaine O'Neal Red /90 raw: sold for $150 on COMC

As you can see, even the /90 red versions are highly sought after for common players. And the condition sensitivity isn't near as important due to the rarity. If you don't buy the card when it comes up for auction, no guarantee it comes around again.

Yeah, I may have spoken out of school on that particular line, since I don’t know modern cards. I appreciate the comment.