Sets: How many really exist?

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by xplainer

So you are near 80% and there are 200 cards in th set?
Wow.

There are actually only 197 cards in the set. Three cards were omitted. #29, #82 and 176. And while 80% isn't "easy", it's nothing compared to the last 10%. The hard core collectors of this set have a good 20-30 years head start on me and it may take me that long to complete it. There are several people much more knowledgeable about the set than I am....I'm still in A ball while they are Hall of Famers. From what I gather, many people have tried to complete this set but gave up due to the difficulty in completing it. I've read where others completed the 61-63 Post and 63 Jell-O but don't even bother trying this one. So far, for me, it's been a labor of love!

[RedsFan1941]

can you elaborate on why the set is so hard to complete or why certain cards are tougher?

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

can you elaborate on why the set is so hard to complete or why certain cards are tougher?

Lol, again, I'm kind of a rookie and my knowledge comes from the guys I consider the Godfathers of this set. But, in short, 1962 was basically a test issue and appears they were printed later in or after the season compared to the Post cereal brethren. The distribution was limited to the Midwest....specifically the Chicagoland area. Not much is known in regards to the exact distribution and quantities as all that information was apparently destroyed or just wasn't saved. Others can give much more detail as far as why some of the players are much more scarce. It has to do with being printed on either the 3oz or the 6oz box or being printed on both and if the were printed on the gelatin or pudding boxes or both. Lol, I try to keep it all straight but I have it written down as I can't always remember things as well as I used to. The funny thing, when you look on Ebay, is the asking prices for the Mantles. While Mantle is going to command a premium just for being Mantle, he is actually one of the easiest cards to find in the set.

[RedsFan1941]

thank you

[Baseballcrazy62]

Any one have any thoughts on the T206/ 1959 Home Run Derby or the 1963 Jell-o?

[jasonc]

Originally Posted by Baseballcrazy62

Any one have any thoughts on the T206/ 1959 Home Run Derby or the 1963 Jell-o?

I believe it was discussed before, but it's interesting to know how many 518, 520 and 524 card T206 sets exist, as well as the T205 set. (raw or graded)

[Spike]

1936 Goudey Big League Gum's easy to complete by player fronts (25 total, biggest name is Greenberg). Master set of front/back variations hasn't been done (or accepted for registration by a grading company) due to uncertain master set size. 176 total is what I'm comfortable with, thanks to research done elsewhere on Net54. No telling whether any cards are shorter-printed that others. Because there's more Lefty Gomez and Chuck Klein front/back combos than others, it's possible they're double- (or triple?) printed.

Short story, lots of 1936 Big League Gum basic sets, zero known master sets.

[Leon]

More than we know about

Originally Posted by jasonc

I believe it was discussed before, but it's interesting to know how many 518, 520 and 524 card T206 sets exist, as well as the T205 set. (raw or graded)

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Baseballcrazy62

Any one have any thoughts on the T206/ 1959 Home Run Derby or the 1963 Jell-o?

Love the 1959 HR Derby set. Very rare and very cool. I used to watch the re runs of the HR derby in the late 70s as a kid. Its one of the only post war sets I still own and love it!!

[Kenmarks]

I will take a shot at answering your question as I have tried to research this set over the years. Before getting started, wanted to throw a big shout-out to Tim for what he has accomplished towards building his Jell-O set in the very limited time since he started. And he is basically acquiring these cards in a card-by-card manner (as opposed to buying a large percentage of the cards at one time). In fact I know of no one who has made as much progress in putting the set together in the few months he has been at it.

So what makes this set so tough to put together. First there was a very limited distribution of the 1962 Jell-O cards when they were produced. It was a promotion that was a test to see the impact of cards on Jell-O product sales. As such, cards could only found in the Chicago/Milwaukee test area. And plans were that the promotion was to run for only 4 weeks. Thus very much different that the nationally distributed 1963 Jell-O cards in a lot of ways. All 197 players had cards that were issued on various packages of Jell-O gelatin. And some players also had cards on multiple gelatin flavors. But what the Jell-O folks also did in 1962 was to issue cards on 5 pudding flavors in addition to the gelatin flavors. Most of the stars appeared on one or more Jell-O pudding flavors (along with some "common" players). Because of these pudding box appearances, it is not hard to find most cards of the stars of the day as pudding was popular thus making more of certain players available (e.g. Mantle, Maris, Ford, Kaline, Cash, Fox, Aparicio, Killebrew, Snider, F. Robinson, Mays, Cepeda, Aaron, and Mathews were among the HOFers printed on pudding). There are probably around 64 players making appearances of pudding boxes with all of those players being not overly challenging to find.

So it is the remaining Jell-O gelatin cards only that have different degrees of difficulty in locating. And the cards that are really tough are the ones that were SOLELY printed on only one flavor of Jell-O that just did not sell that much. An example of one of those flavors is the small Black Raspberry Jell-O flavor. That is were the super tough cards of players like Maye, Spangler, Grammas, and Haddix were printed on.

One of the major issues from totally understanding the promotion is that there is not documentation that has ever been found that shows exactly which player cards came on each flavor and size of Jell-O (this exists for the 63 Jell-O set and all the Post Cereal BB/FB sets). As such, while there is a general understanding of which cards are tough and the level of difficulty of those cards, without a production list, it is very tough to tell why in terms of Jell-O gelatin flavors those cards appeared on. Some of us have started lists that try track which players appeared on which flavors of Jell-O, but with limited boxes and pictures of boxes available to see the flavor a player was on, those lists are probably far less than 50 percent complete. So I have likely rambled too much, but hopefully provided you a decent overview.

[Baseballcrazy62]

The 63 Jell-o set currently has 2 sets listed on the registry. Anyone want to venture a guess on how many exist?

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by Kenmarks

I will take a shot at answering your question as I have tried to research this set over the years. Before getting started, wanted to throw a big shout-out to Tim for what he has accomplished towards building his Jell-O set in the very limited time since he started. And he is basically acquiring these cards in a card-by-card manner (as opposed to buying a large percentage of the cards at one time). In fact I know of no one who has made as much progress in putting the set together in the few months he has been at it.

So what makes this set so tough to put together. First there was a very limited distribution of the 1962 Jell-O cards when they were produced. It was a promotion that was a test to see the impact of cards on Jell-O product sales. As such, cards could only found in the Chicago/Milwaukee test area. And plans were that the promotion was to run for only 4 weeks. Thus very much different that the nationally distributed 1963 Jell-O cards in a lot of ways. All 197 players had cards that were issued on various packages of Jell-O gelatin. And some players also had cards on multiple gelatin flavors. But what the Jell-O folks also did in 1962 was to issue cards on 5 pudding flavors in addition to the gelatin flavors. Most of the stars appeared on one or more Jell-O pudding flavors (along with some "common" players). Because of these pudding box appearances, it is not hard to find most cards of the stars of the day as pudding was popular thus making more of certain players available (e.g. Mantle, Maris, Ford, Kaline, Cash, Fox, Aparicio, Killebrew, Snider, F. Robinson, Mays, Cepeda, Aaron, and Mathews were among the HOFers printed on pudding). There are probably around 64 players making appearances of pudding boxes with all of those players being not overly challenging to find.

So it is the remaining Jell-O gelatin cards only that have different degrees of difficulty in locating. And the cards that are really tough are the ones that were SOLELY printed on only one flavor of Jell-O that just did not sell that much. An example of one of those flavors is the small Black Raspberry Jell-O flavor. That is were the super tough cards of players like Maye, Spangler, Grammas, and Haddix were printed on.

One of the major issues from totally understanding the promotion is that there is not documentation that has ever been found that shows exactly which player cards came on each flavor and size of Jell-O (this exists for the 63 Jell-O set and all the Post Cereal BB/FB sets). As such, while there is a general understanding of which cards are tough and the level of difficulty of those cards, without a production list, it is very tough to tell why in terms of Jell-O gelatin flavors those cards appeared on. Some of us have started lists that try track which players appeared on which flavors of Jell-O, but with limited boxes and pictures of boxes available to see the flavor a player was on, those lists are probably far less than 50 percent complete. So I have likely rambled too much, but hopefully provided you a decent overview.

I haven't been out here actively reading in a couple weeks, so just catching up. Ken, thank you for the kind words. I consider you my mentor and one day hope to have a fraction of the collection of 62 Jell-O that you have, both quality and quantity.
What really prompted me to respond again was reading thru all the replies. This forum has some experts on many types of cards and you see a many responses and estimates of the pre-war sets referred to in the OP. The Jell-O just doesn't get the love it deserves. Albeit a post-war issue, the scarcity of this set is relatively overlooked. In comparison to the other sets noted, it most likely meets or exceeds the scarcity of the aforementioned sets in complete from. Then again, I'm just a post-war guy living in a pre-war world, lol! Great discussion guys!