Mariano

MichelaiTorres83 · #1 01-26-2019, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

From my experience, if you go to the non-sport board and start a poll "Who is Mariano Rivera?" They don't know. They've never heard of 'im. He's a local celeb like Joe Mauer.

I thought he was a painter until I read this thread. Baseball. Who could have seen that one coming?

GaryPassamonte · #2 01-26-2019, 08:23 AM

Here's an interesting analysis of closers.

https://dizzydeane.wordpress.com/201...ated-position/

Aquarian Sports Cards · #3 01-26-2019, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Here's an interesting analysis of closers.

https://dizzydeane.wordpress.com/201...ated-position/

Great article, but really it's not that involved. If you like WAR look at WAR for an elite reliever. it's about 1/3 to 1/4 the WAR of a great Starter or position player. Pretty simple.

frankbmd · #4 01-26-2019, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

From my experience, if you go to the non-sport board and start a poll "Who is Mariano Rivera?" They don't know. They've never heard of 'im. He's a local celeb like Joe Mauer.

I mentioned the ongoing Mariano debate here to an old friend via email yesterday.

His response

�Wasn�t he one of the three tenors?�

Peter_Spaeth · #5 01-26-2019, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I mentioned the ongoing Mariano debate here to an old friend via email yesterday.

His response

“Wasn’t he one of the three tenors?”

You clearly hang with culturally astute folks.
Then again, if one of them got tired at the end of a concert....

GaryPassamonte · #6 01-26-2019, 09:27 AM

Scott- I wasn't speaking specifically about Rivera's numbers as a starter, but he sure was converted from starter to reliever quickly. At the time, I would think that conversion had more to do with his future prospects as a starter than his future prospects as a closer. He didn't exactly shine as a starter. I know this is a small sample size, but it backs up what I've said.
I do believe Rivera is the best closer of all time. I just don't believe the best pitchers in baseball are converted to closers. They remain starters.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #7 01-26-2019, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Scott- I wasn't speaking specifically about Rivera's numbers as a starter, but he sure was converted from starter to reliever quickly. At the time, I would think that conversion had more to do with his future prospects as a starter than his future prospects as a closer. He didn't exactly shine as a starter. I know this is a small sample size, but it backs up what I've said.
I do believe Rivera is the best closer of all time. I just don't believe the best pitchers in baseball are converted to closers. They remain starters.

I posted that in support of your point. I agree with you.

frankbmd · #8 01-26-2019, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You clearly hang with culturally astute folks.
Then again, if one of them got tired at the end of a concert....

After an exhaustive check, I can assure you that the three tenors never closed a concert or concert this way

�Mr Sandman, bring me a dream
Make him the cutest that I�ve ever seen
Give him two lips like roses and clover
Then tell him his lonesome nights are over.�

But the Chordettes did.

GaryPassamonte · #9 01-26-2019, 09:02 AM

Scott- Beyond the metrics, I found it interesting that closers turned starters had no success. How many highly successful starters become closers? Closers are generally high velocity or one pitch specialists that have shown difficulty being successful when pitching a number of innings in one game. Otherwise, they would be starters.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #10 01-26-2019, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Scott- Beyond the metrics, I found it interesting that closers turned starters had no success. How many highly successful starters become closers? Closers are generally high velocity or one pitch specialists that have shown difficulty being successful when pitching a number of innings in one game. Otherwise, they would be starters.

Stats ERA G IP HR BB SO WHIP SO/9 SO/BB
as Starter 5.94 10 50.0 8 20 38 1.680 6.8 1.90

He also didn't even make the majors until he was 25, so FAR from an elite starting prospect.

oldjudge · #11 01-28-2019, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Stats ERA G IP HR BB SO WHIP SO/9 SO/BB
as Starter 5.94 10 50.0 8 20 38 1.680 6.8 1.90

He also didn't even make the majors until he was 25, so FAR from an elite starting prospect.

For the first six years of Koufax�s career (six years, HALF OF HIS CAREER) his average year was 6-7, ERA-4.10, WHIP-1.428, �so FAR from an elite starting prospect�. At that point he wasn�t even good enough to turn into a closer. Maybe you should focus on the totality of Mariano�s work.

#12 01-28-2019, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

For the first six years of Koufax�s career (six years, HALF OF HIS CAREER) his average year was 6-7, ERA-4.10, WHIP-1.428, �so FAR from an elite starting prospect�. At that point he wasn�t even good enough to turn into a closer. Maybe you should focus on the totality of Mariano�s work.

Agreed, the 'totality" of Mariano's work gets him in the HOF with today's game. He is not in the top 40 greatest pitchers.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Mariano Rivera	MrSeven	Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports	8	03-02-2019 08:59 AM
Does anyone have a Mariano RC , or AROD sp rookie ? LTB	soxfan1986	1980 & Newer Sports Cards B/S/T	7	01-17-2016 04:55 PM
My 1992 Mariano Rivera From PSA	herbc	Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present)	4	06-12-2015 08:05 PM
Looking for Signed Jeter and Mariano!!	Nappy1525	Autographs & Game Used B/S/T	0	11-10-2014 06:35 PM
f/s: '92 bowman mariano rivera...$47	chaddurbin	1980 & Newer Sports Cards B/S/T	0	08-19-2013 03:35 PM