Mariano

[Touch'EmAll]

Here is a different way to think about his greatness. Lets say you have to come up with your all time best team one player at a time - kinda like when you were a kid on the playground and the captains each took turn choosing their team one player at at time. Would you pick Rivera with your very first pick? Second pick? Or way down the list after you pick guys like Cobb, Ruth Williams, Walter Johnson, etc.?

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Here is a different way to think about his greatness. Lets say you have to come up with your all time best team one player at a time - kinda like when you were a kid on the playground and the captains each took turn choosing their team one player at at time. Would you pick Rivera with your very first pick? Second pick? Or way down the list after you pick guys like Cobb, Ruth Williams, Walter Johnson, etc.?

I would pick no pitcher in the beginning, starter or reliever. Mariano would certainly be the first reliever I take. If I am planning to use no pitcher more than a few innings like how the game is going now, he would be my first pitcher overall.

[egbeachley]

Since WW2, teams leading by 1-run after the 8th inning won 85.7% of the time. When leading by 2-runs it was 93.7%. When 3-runs it was 95.7%.

Over 2/3 (442] of Rivera’s 652 saves came with a 2-run (210), 3-run (180), or 4-run (46) lead when entering the game.

Basically, his 89.1% career save percentage was due to his team already having a 88% or better chance of winning anyway, according to league averages.

[oldjudge]

Eric--So are you saying that Mariano was worse than the average reliever? I think maybe you should relook at your numbers.

[packs]

Where does that number come from? I just looked at the team pitching stats from last season and there are only 3 teams in all of baseball with a save percentage 85 % or higher.

http://proxy.espn.com/mlb/stats/team...ded&order=true

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by packs

Where does that number come from? I just looked at the team pitching stats from last season and there are only 3 teams in all of baseball with a save percentage 85 % or higher.

http://proxy.espn.com/mlb/stats/team...ded&order=true

Different stat. Wins can be without a reliever, blown save then a win, etc.