Trimming Frauds Revealed | How Does It Impact Vintage???

[doug.goodman]

The people who buy holders instead of cards, and I include all purchasers of hugely overpriced high number opinions by the people who get paid for their opinions, deserve everything they get.

That market is a different market than the one most of us are in (although ours is affected) and they will ignore the truth and continue selling among themselves.

The Gretzky Wagner is my proof.

Doug "Fuck 'em" Goodman

[iowadoc77]

The National was jam packed with "commodity brokers" of cards and there was plenty of action at their tables with people handing across their PSA 10s and BGS 9.5s and very few were looking at anything other than the flip, and especially the subgrades for the BGS. Then they would spit out a number and a transaction would either happen or the person who brought the card would go to the next table and the exact same thing would happen. Over and over and over. No "nice for the grade". No "great eye appeal". Only the almighty flip. And the grading companies know this and thrive on this. And why wouldn't they. Tom Brady Contenders 9 vs 10- not a lot of difference in condition, but a big flippin difference in price!
And this isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The action at the National was at these tables. By far!
I like my low and midgrade collection. I couldn't afford most of the cards i have in high grade. But to each their own. There isn't a right or wrong way to do this, just different opinions. But popular opinion favors the flip

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

The people who buy holders instead of cards, and I include all purchasers of hugely overpriced high number opinions by the people who get paid for their opinions, deserve everything they get.

That market is a different market than the one most of us are in (although ours is affected) and they will ignore the truth and continue selling among themselves.

The Gretzky Wagner is my proof.

Doug "Fuck 'em" Goodman

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Like it, or him, or not, David Hall certainly read the tea leaves very well when he started all this.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

The people who buy holders instead of cards, and I include all purchasers of hugely overpriced high number opinions by the people who get paid for their opinions, deserve everything they get.

That market is a different market than the one most of us are in (although ours is affected) and they will ignore the truth and continue selling among themselves.

The Gretzky Wagner is my proof.

Doug "Fuck 'em" Goodman

Happily, most people on this board aren't one of these. Most people here are just collector-types who like honest wear.

[AGuinness]

What amazes me about both the T206 forgeries and this trimming scandal is that, to the best of my knowledge, no TPG has publicly addressed it in any way. I would have thought at least one might have issued a statement to say that they're doing the best they can, going to be more diligent, etc., even if it is just hot air. But their silence probably says more than any statement would, including that they expect these revelations to blow over, perhaps.

And FWIW, the BO board has approximately 40,000 members while this board has approximately 10,000. I wonder if those numbers reflect the general collecting population when it comes to vintage vs modern cards...

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

What amazes me about both the T206 forgeries and this trimming scandal is that, to the best of my knowledge, no TPG has publicly addressed it in any way. I would have thought at least one might have issued a statement to say that they're doing the best they can, going to be more diligent, etc., even if it is just hot air. But their silence probably says more than any statement would, including that they expect these revelations to blow over, perhaps.

And FWIW, the BO board has approximately 40,000 members while this board has approximately 10,000. I wonder if those numbers reflect the general collecting population when it comes to vintage vs modern cards...

I would think from all the previous scandals in the hobby they have learned silence is buy far the best answer.

EDIT: I know there are a lot of us that are members on both forums.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

The people who buy holders instead of cards, and I include all purchasers of hugely overpriced high number opinions by the people who get paid for their opinions, deserve everything they get.

That market is a different market than the one most of us are in (although ours is affected) and they will ignore the truth and continue selling among themselves.

The Gretzky Wagner is my proof.

Doug "Fuck 'em" Goodman

A big +1 as to those that buy the holder instead of the card. Especially as to newer cards, where thousands exist in higher grades, there is no way that the premium price of a "10" can be justified over that of an "8" or even a "7" from the perspective of the actual differences in the quality of the cards.

Right on,

Larry

[egbeachley]

The only way this gets everyone’s attention is if ESPN does a write-up on this scandal. It’s possible since it indirectly involves LeBron and the numbers thrown out are $100K or more.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

The only way this gets everyone’s attention is if ESPN does a write-up on this scandal. It’s possible since it indirectly involves LeBron and the numbers thrown out are $100K or more.

Put Darren Rovell on it. He would do a story on it. Anything money and sports he’s all over it.

[SetBuilder]

Is this normal with modern cards?

I found this LeBron James auto/patch card that sold for $4,755 in a BGS 9 holder.
Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...site-919702239

Then the same card (which I'm pretty sure it's the same card even if I can't see the serial number...the auto is exactly the same) magically re-appears in a BGS 9.5 holder and sells for a staggering $40,000.
Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...mes-1923179380

I can see how the surface grade can improve with some simple dirt removal, but how did the corners, centering, and edges somehow improve between 2014 and 2018?

Do these cards get better with age, like fine wines?

[mrvster]

wow.....that's crazy.....

[egbeachley]

They are saying that a couple cards went for over $100K. The alleged scammer, Eric Anthony Bitz, runs a company called BuyNiceCards or BNC out of Pennsylvania.

Here is a 13 second video that shows a typical BNC card and the untrimmed original as pulled from WorthPoint.

https://youtu.be/EJuO1SEucoY

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

A big +1 as to those that buy the holder instead of the card. Especially as to newer cards, where thousands exist in higher grades, there is no way that the premium price of a "10" can be justified over that of an "8" or even a "7" from the perspective of the actual differences in the quality of the cards.

Right on,

Larry

True, the way you frame the inquiry, but as we have discussed here many times that's entirely beside the point. The flip is the commodity that is being bought and sold, not the card.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

True, the way you frame the inquiry, but as we have discussed here many times that's entirely beside the point. The flip is the commodity that is being bought and sold, not the card.

Sad but true, Pete.

Highest regards,

Larry