Trimming Frauds Revealed | How Does It Impact Vintage???

[iowadoc77]

this is why I collect beaters instead because you get more cards for the money and you usually don't have to worry about fraud.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

this is why I collect beaters instead because you get more cards for the money and you usually don't have to worry about fraud.

+1

[Leon]

I tried reading the summary and it was too long. We need a summary of the summary!! Trimmed cards suck and it is not an exact science in determining it, imo.

[Bpm0014]

I have a raw T206 set. A small percentage are beaters. But I feel like you get more cards for the money and you usually don't have to worry about fraud.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I find it interesting that with all the people who must have graded for PSA over the years, as far as I know, with the exception of Bill Hughes claiming PSA knew the Wagner was trimmed, there has not been a single public accusation of fraud or incompetence by an ex-grader.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I find it interesting that with all the people who must have graded for PSA over the years, as far as I know, with the exception of Bill Hughes claiming PSA knew the Wagner was trimmed, there has not been a single public accusation of fraud or incompetence by an ex-grader.

Does anyone know if they have employees sign NDAs? Pretty commonplace in industry today.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Does anyone know if they have employees sign NDAs? Pretty commonplace in industry today.

I have no idea if they do but every business should along with a non compete agreement.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Does anyone know if they have employees sign NDAs? Pretty commonplace in industry today.

Sure you can protect proprietary information to some extent but you can't extract a vow of omerta.

[frankbmd]

If one is talking about razor sharp corners on a T206, should not the next question be .........

How sharp were razors in 1910?

The unintended consequences of grading, slabbing, authentication and registries have opened the door for mischief and fraud. And yet ...............

The TPGs rake in the dough and the “sheeple” wait 2,3 or even 12 months for their services (?).

Wake up, sheeple. Preservation of a low or mid grade prewar card in a slab may be justified, but climbing the scale from 6 to 7 to 8 is an act of self-deception. How many 100 year old antiques (not restored) look like they were produced in the 21st century? Ty Cobb should have rounded corners and Matty isn’t always perfectly centered.

And with essentially only one registry ruling the roost, you are supporting the problem, not looking for a solution.

Competition in a market is generally a good thing, I think. When one entity has an 80% share of the market, look for them to maintain control, which may not be a good thing.

In the modern market, give me one hundred “pack fresh” cards and ask me to make three piles, 8, 9 and 10. Then give the same one hundred cards to another collector to make the same three piles. Would the piles be the same? I really doubt it and they may not even be close and yet when the cards come back slabbed, a 10 is worth 10 times the value of a 9, and a 9 is worth 10 times the value of an 8. And once again the TPGs rake in the dough and the “sheeple” play along not only once, but again and again. Lottery psychology drives the market, maintains control and that 80% market share.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

...

In the modern market, give me one hundred “pack fresh” cards and ask me to make three piles, 8, 9 and 10. Then give the same one hundred cards to another collector to make the same three piles. Would the piles be the same? I really doubt it and they may not even be close and yet when the cards come back slabbed, a 10 is worth 10 times the value of a 9, and a 9 is worth 10 times the value of an 8. And once again the TPGs rake in the dough and the “sheeple” play along not only once, but again and again. Lottery psychology drives the market, maintains control and that 80% market share.

They performed this very experiment in the coin collecting hobby in court, Frank, and the results were exactly what you have postulated--no consistency!

Best wishes,

Larry

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I tried reading the summary and it was too long. We need a summary of the summary!! Trimmed cards suck and it is not an exact science in determining it, imo.

Super short version. A few more of the 1000's of scammers got pointed out. Everyone says what they collect has little or no fraud involved, they are all wrong. Little to nothing will be done to the scammers and in little to no time no one will care.

[Orioles1954]

Incredible research.

[Leon]

How much were the shipping charges? Then someone will care!!

From my experience I believe pre-war cards with big, rounded borders have been trimmed less than higher end cards with smaller borders and have confirmed that again in the last few days .

Originally Posted by bnorth

Super short version. A few more of the 1000's of scammers got pointed out. Everyone says what they collect has little or no fraud involved, they are all wrong. Little to nothing will be done to the scammers and in little to no time no one will care.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Leon

I tried reading the summary and it was too long. We need a summary of the summary!! Trimmed cards suck and it is not an exact science in determining it, imo.

Summary of the Summary:

A key basketball card is a LeBron Exquisite of which 99 were made. Many of the high grade ones have prior auction scans that show damage that was “removed” by micro-trimming (like the T206 autograph scam identified here). A specific card numbered 87/99 was identified and everyone who touched it denied trimming it including a key individual who stated he bought it from a collection in 2014.....then an old screenshot shows the untrimmed version for sale by this individual in 2013. Further tracking finds this individual hiring a Cal-Berkeley student to modify an industrial paper trimmer to remove exactly 1/64 inches.

The ad may have been from another person as it was hard to follow.

[Marckus99]

I hope you deep pocket guys keep getting burned.
Love it.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by Marckus99

I hope you deep pocket guys keep getting burned.
Love it.

This is a little harsh.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Marckus99

I hope you deep pocket guys keep getting burned.
Love it.

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

This is a little harsh.

At least he's consistent!

Originally Posted by Marckus99

If you have $5k or $10k to waste on an autograph, glad you got burned!

[ALR-bishop]

He ( Marckus99) has found a unique way to enjoy the hobby