Are the "T213-1" (1910 COUPON) cards really T206's ? ....I think so....What say you ?

[Leon]

I found some new evidence this morning (after 77 yrs) that does in fact show Burdick thought all of these were issued later but at the time he had only seen the blue captioned ones, meaning type 2 and type 3. He noted that they were similar to 521 (now T206) but issued in 1914-1915. The first reference I have to type 1s is 4 yrs later in 1946 but he still thought they were all issued in 1914-1915. Maybe if he knew the type 1s were earlier he would have put them with 206s, but I can't think of a T206 back that has another white border like that? T206 Coupons and T213 Coupons? I dunno....
Another tidbit is it looks like Burdick made T213, T214 and T215 their own sets partially because they all came with blue captions (I know 213-1 didn't) and T206 has brown ones. But once he found the brown captioned ones, and they said Coupon on back, that is where he put them.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Leon

I found some new evidence this morning (after 77 yrs) that does in fact show Burdick thought all of these were issued later but at the time he had only seen the blue captioned ones, meaning type 2 and type 3. He noted that they were similar to 521 (now T206) but issued in 1914-1915. The first reference I have to type 1s is 4 yrs later in 1946 but he still thought they were all issued in 1914-1915. Maybe if he knew the type 1s were earlier he would have put them with 206s, but I can't think of a T206 back that has another white border like that? T206 Coupons and T213 Coupons? I dunno....

Leon

Can you expand on this ....."but I can't think of a T206 back that has another white border like that? "…..statement of yours ?

Because to me it is clearly evident that the 1910 COUPON backs, having the same stylistic design as the T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY (frame)--BROAD LEAF-- CYCLE--DRUM cards,
tell us that these COUPON cards were printed and issued concurrently with the T206 AB-BL-CY-DR cards.
Here is my example of this...……...

A - B - C - C - D connection (printed circa Spring/Summer 1910)




TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Leon]

I will try to clarify the question-

What OTHER t206 tobacco brand has another white bordered baseball T card the same size as T206s? Because that is what would have to be done to do what you suggest.

And also, I guess as devil's advocate, even IF these T213-1s were printed with the other T206s who says they have to be labeled as such?

Originally Posted by tedzan

Leon

Can you expand on this ....."but I can't think of a T206 back that has another white border like that? "…..statement of yours ?

Because to me it is clearly evident that the 1910 COUPON backs, having the same stylistic design as the T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY (frame)--BROAD LEAF-- CYCLE--DRUM cards,
tell us that these COUPON cards were printed and issued concurrently with the T206 AB-BL-CY-DR cards.
Here is my example of this...……...

A - B - C - C - D connection (printed circa Spring/Summer 1910)




TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Leon

I will try to clarify the question-

What OTHER t206 tobacco brand has another white bordered baseball T card the same size as T206s? Because that is what would have to be done to do what you suggest.

And also, I guess as devil's advocate, even IF these T213-1s were printed with the other T206s who says they have to be labeled as such?

Leon


My understanding of Jefferson Burdick's established formula for T206's is that which comprises of white-bordered, brown captioned, cards with ATC advertisements
that were printed and issued within the timeline 1909 to early 1911 ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Leon]

Ok, so my understanding comes from the 1942 ACC Supplement and the 1946 ACC, where might yours come from?

Originally Posted by tedzan

Leon
My understanding of Jefferson Burdick's established formula for T206's is that which comprises of white-bordered, brown captioned, cards with ATC advertisements
that were printed and issued within the timeline 1909 to early 1911 ?

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Leon

Ok, so my understanding comes from the 1942 ACC Supplement and the 1946 ACC, where might yours come from?

Leon

In the 1970's - 1980's, my understanding of the T206 set was first developed by talking BB cards with these hobby greats...…

Bill Heitman
Irv Lerner
Frank Nagy

It's a shame Jefferson Burdick didn't live to be 90, we would have been very fortunate to discuss all this hobby stuff with him.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[MichelaiTorres83]

I do not know who those people are but that sounds like heresay.

I do not have an opinion either way but I can see the argument.

To that point:

Couldn’t a wolf be considered a breed of dog or all dogs are wolves. What determines a wolf is not a dog?

A few characteristics and someone at some point in time someone some where decided there is enough of a difference that they should be considered two sepeate things followed by a bunch of people accepting that.

Will you find people that think a wolf is a dog? Yep.