"RESTORED" Wagner - how should we feel about this as collectors?

[bounce]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

The question I would pose is the difference between honest wear / damage to a card vs. "dishonest" in the attempt to make a card look better.

Just food for thought.

Good post. I've really enjoyed reading this thread, and I feel like it's spurred some good thought and discussion.

On your post specifically, ask yourself those same questions from two different contexts:
1) How/why does it matter if I'm really just "collecting"
2) How/why does it matter if I'm really just "investing"

Clearly there is no right answer to the questions above, and one is not inherently "better" than the other. What I was interested to hear, and why I started the thread, is how the hobby more broadly is/has evolved and may evolve further in the future. I'm interested in others opinions about what makes certain cards valuable, how much restoration is "too much" or maybe there isn't such a thing. What is most people's perception of value, and how much of that is driven by "original" versus "looks good". Do the TPAs have any responsibility to assist in measuring/describing restoration work, and what responsibility if any do we think sellers in general and auction houses specifically have related to it.

Good stuff, keep it coming.

[mrvster]

hello...

I really hope I'm not hogging this thread.....

I feel a restoration like this turns the card or should I say"MORPHS" the card into a "CREATION"........

rolling out a wrinkle, pulling a layered corner back , writing on a card, erasing a part, soaking in WATER, .......this has gone on since cards were collected, they technically really don't effect the original intergrity of the card( I know writing and erasing is borderline)....


BUT- "recreating" a card basically like this "Franken wag" is unacceptable...

it no longer becomes a T206.....

it's like a transgender cardboard....


where did the cardboard come from to add to the border???? conservator you would hope used another T206 like Chance ....??? but he could have used toilet paper for all we know!


point is pure and simple- once you start adding "foreign items" - glue, ink, cardboard....it is no longer authentic....


ONLY PART IS AUTHENTIC!!!

simple concept.....it has become "other than T206"

a new creation...


question.....if this was done to a HEINIE WAGNER- would SGC or PSA slab it as AUTHENTIC RESTORED??????????????


HELL NO!

this is crazy talk.....I'm losing it!

if we accept this , it opens the flood gates...


if I have a slabbed jeter foil graded with added tin foil, its a shit card to me! should never be graded as authentic card! it is reengineered....

the Wagner is a natural beauty that someone took a shit on!

forget about the pig and lipstick analogy....

I apologize for saying this, and NO DISRESPECT to the owner CONGRATS~!

I need to say this......


am I jealous??? yes, anyone would love to own even a piece of a wagner, its my dream, but looking at this is like taking that Farah Faucet poster and adding fake tits on her and reprinting it....sure looks great! but wait until you feel them


my apologies for being so graphic

John Vanderbeck

[luciobar1980]

Are you going to have an aneurysm over this??

Originally Posted by mrvster

hello...

I really hope I'm not hogging this thread.....

I feel a restoration like this turns the card or should I say"MORPHS" the card into a "CREATION"........

rolling out a wrinkle, pulling a layered corner back , writing on a card, erasing a part, soaking in WATER, .......this has gone on since cards were collected, they technically really don't effect the original intergrity of the card( I know writing and erasing is borderline)....


BUT- "recreating" a card basically like this "Franken wag" is unacceptable...

it no longer becomes a T206.....

it's like a transgender cardboard....


where did the cardboard come from to add to the border???? conservator you would hope used another T206 like Chance ....??? but he could have used toilet paper for all we know!


point is pure and simple- once you start adding "foreign items" - glue, ink, cardboard....it is no longer authentic....


ONLY PART IS AUTHENTIC!!!

simple concept.....it has become "other than T206"

a new creation...


question.....if this was done to a HEINIE WAGNER- would SGC or PSA slab it as AUTHENTIC RESTORED??????????????


HELL NO!

this is crazy talk.....I'm losing it!

if we accept this , it opens the flood gates...


if I have a slabbed jeter foil graded with added tin foil, its a shit card to me! should never be graded as authentic card! it is reengineered....

the Wagner is a natural beauty that someone took a shit on!

forget about the pig and lipstick analogy....

I apologize for saying this, and NO DISRESPECT to the owner CONGRATS~!

I need to say this......


am I jealous??? yes, anyone would love to own even a piece of a wagner, its my dream, but looking at this is like taking that Farah Faucet poster and adding fake tits on her and reprinting it....sure looks great! but wait until you feel them


my apologies for being so graphic

John Vanderbeck

[luciobar1980]

Are you going to have an aneurysm over this??

Originally Posted by mrvster

hello...

I really hope I'm not hogging this thread.....

I feel a restoration like this turns the card or should I say"MORPHS" the card into a "CREATION"........

rolling out a wrinkle, pulling a layered corner back , writing on a card, erasing a part, soaking in WATER, .......this has gone on since cards were collected, they technically really don't effect the original intergrity of the card( I know writing and erasing is borderline)....


BUT- "recreating" a card basically like this "Franken wag" is unacceptable...

it no longer becomes a T206.....

it's like a transgender cardboard....


where did the cardboard come from to add to the border???? conservator you would hope used another T206 like Chance ....??? but he could have used toilet paper for all we know!


point is pure and simple- once you start adding "foreign items" - glue, ink, cardboard....it is no longer authentic....


ONLY PART IS AUTHENTIC!!!

simple concept.....it has become "other than T206"

a new creation...


question.....if this was done to a HEINIE WAGNER- would SGC or PSA slab it as AUTHENTIC RESTORED??????????????


HELL NO!

this is crazy talk.....I'm losing it!

if we accept this , it opens the flood gates...


if I have a slabbed jeter foil graded with added tin foil, its a shit card to me! should never be graded as authentic card! it is reengineered....

the Wagner is a natural beauty that someone took a shit on!

forget about the pig and lipstick analogy....

I apologize for saying this, and NO DISRESPECT to the owner CONGRATS~!

I need to say this......


am I jealous??? yes, anyone would love to own even a piece of a wagner, its my dream, but looking at this is like taking that Farah Faucet poster and adding fake tits on her and reprinting it....sure looks great! but wait until you feel them


my apologies for being so graphic

John Vanderbeck

[mrvster]

I can't help it.....this card is pivotal ........ it basically making "restoration" mainstream, as I am a card purist...........accepting this opens a real mess