Is this Brian Kenny on MLB Real ?

[ejharrington]

My favorite quote from one of the stat geeks: "Wins don't matter".

I am a stat geek but c'mon...

[Snapolit1]

I am not an advanced stats guy. It seems to me, as a relative simpleton, that the ultimate judge of how valuable an offensive player is both: RBI and getting on base. The old "keep the line moving" canard. I get that Paul O'Neil got a boatload more RBI's on the Yankees that he would have gotten on the Mets the same year because the Yankees were stacked and the Mets sucked. He was fortunate to frequently come up with guys already on base. I get it. But to somehow denigrate the fact that he came through and knocked them in? That I don't get it. Sounds like arguing that Tom Brady's career TD tally really isn't very impressive because he has had guys working with him who are good at catching the balls he's thrown.

Seems like the advance stat guys knock some guys because all they did was get RBI and have a low OBP and knock other guys because all they did was getting on base and have little to show for it.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

My favorite quote from one of the stat geeks: "Wins don't matter".

I am a stat geek but c'mon...

If I may guess the context, the stat guy probably meant that which pitcher is officially credited with the win doesn't matter as much as actually winning the game. And the corollary, that the ranking of how good different pitchers are is not identical to the ranking of how many wins they have (either in a season or in a career). It may have also been an attempted Yogi-ism that only makes sense in the context of understanding that we've lived through an era in which season win totals became much less predictive of Cy Young Awards than they used to be.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

My favorite quote from one of the stat geeks: "Wins don't matter".

I am a stat geek but c'mon...

W L ERA IP K BB
8 16 2.76 211.2 270 87

17 12 3.93 251.2 138 107

Tell me how wins mean anything.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

My favorite quote from one of the stat geeks: "Wins don't matter".

I am a stat geek but c'mon...

They don't mean team wins. They mean pitching wins and that does make some sense. if you have a guy who throws 220 or more innings and his team sucks but his ERA is 2.5 with 1K per innings and his record is 10-12.

Facing another guy with 185 innings an ERA of 4 and not as good other stats whose team scores a lot of runs and goes 15-5.

Tell me who really had the better year.

Rich

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

They don't mean team wins. They mean pitching wins and that does make some sense. if you have a guy who throws 220 or more innings and his team sucks but his ERA is 2.5 with 1K per innings and his record is 10-12.

Facing another guy with 185 innings an ERA of 4 and not as good other stats whose team scores a lot of runs and goes 15-5.

Tell me who really had the better year.

Rich

LOL see above post

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

LOL see above post

The top 50 pitchers in the history of baseball all had winning records and I know a lot of them played on bad teams. The best pitchers find a way to win. To say pitching wins don't matter is ludicrous and overstating the case.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

The top 50 pitchers in the history of baseball all had winning records and I know a lot of them played on bad teams. The best pitchers find a way to win. To say pitching wins don't matter is ludicrous and overstating the case.

Well, as Degrom learned last year it's awfully hard to "find ways to win games" when your team doesn't score runs and your bullpen is shit.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Well, as Degrom learned last year it's awfully hard to "find ways to win games" when your team doesn't score runs and your bullpen is shit.

His career winning percentage is .573.

[Jim65]

Personally I agree that wins are not a fair way to measure a pitcher, but I wonder how many pitchers would say wins don't matter.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Personally I agree that wins are not a fair way to measure a pitcher, but I wonder how many pitchers would say wins don't matter.

Not one pitcher would

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

The top 50 pitchers in the history of baseball all had winning records and I know a lot of them played on bad teams. The best pitchers find a way to win. To say pitching wins don't matter is ludicrous and overstating the case.

Yes and lots of mediocre pitchers also have winning records. The number 4 pitcher on a great team is not better than the ace on a lousy team.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Yes and lots of mediocre pitchers also have winning records. The number 4 pitcher on a great team is not better than the ace on a lousy team.

That depends on the team.