Lee Smith & Harold Baines??

[pclpads]

Cooperstown is replicating Canton. If a former FB player can tell the diff between a golf ball and a football, well, he's in at Canton! Case closed . . .

[G1911]

Fine players, but I can probably come up with 30 players more deserving. I saw the veterans committee has both Baines former manager and owner on it, which helps explain it. Veterans committee nominations seem to be almost random, while the writers tend to do a pretty good job on the whole

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by pclpads

Cooperstown is replicating Canton. If a former FB player can tell the diff between a golf ball and a football, well, he's in at Canton! Case closed . . .

I played high school football and I can tell the difference between a golf ball and a football. My problem is that I can't always find my golf ball, but I have never lost a football.

CANTON here I come.

[bbcard1]

If relievers belong in the hall of fame, then I think Lee Smith is a fair choice. The irony is that the longevity for which we often (and perhaps fairly) leads to an indictment of the Baines/Sutton types as "compilers" is very elusive for closers. While you get an occassional Thigpen or Mark Davis, Smith had more than 30 saves eleven years in a row. You could argue the value of a save, but it's a fairly globally accepted measure of productivity.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Metrics of course aren't everything, but sheesh Baines ranks as the 74th best right fielder of all time according to JAWS. He's so far down the list it isn't even funny. Exactly what did he do other than play a long time at a decent level that offsets the tale told by that metric?

I think guys like Allen, Belle, Oliva, Murphy, Garvey who were among the top few best players in the game for a stretch of 5-7 or so years are more worthy.

[packs]

I don't think anyone would say Lee Smith was better than Rollie Fingers or Dennis Eckersly, both of whom overlapped with his career. He was left out for a reason. Nothing has changed in the time between.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Closers only pitch one inning..usually only in the game half an inning..or only 3 outs worth

At least Baines got 4-5 at bats in a game.

I always felt closers besides elite elite like M. Rivera are guys that are one or 2 bad seasons away from being the 25th guy like Axford and the list goes on..

Being a DH is fine to be in the HOF as long as they let closers in ....any number 2 starting pitcher could of been a decent closer i believe..

[ramram]

The simple fact is that the Hall of Fame voters, or at least enough of them, had signed Harold Baines rookie cards in their collections.

Rob M

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think anyone would say Lee Smith was better than Rollie Fingers or Dennis Eckersly, both of whom overlapped with his career. He was left out for a reason. Nothing has changed in the time between.

Part of that reason was that he was unpopular with the sportswriters and did not have a dandy memorable thing like a handlebar Finger's handlebar mustache or Gossage's mutton chops or Hoffman's Hell's Bells.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I know W-L isn't that meaningful for a reliever, but Smith was 71-92, that has to be the worst percentage of any HOF pitcher, no?

[1952boyntoncollector]

I got this from SB Nation


Martinez won two batting titles, led the American League in on-base percentage thrice, doubles twice, and led once each in OPS, OPS+, runs scored and RBI. He was named a Silver Slugger as the best hitter at his position seven times.

Baines won a Silver Slugger once (1989), and led the AL in slugging percentage once (1984). That is the extent of the black ink on his Baseball-Reference page.

Baines was a compiler over a long period of time, which absolutely has value, to be productive over 22 years in the majors. His hit total is relatively high (2,866), good enough to rank 46th all-time. He has 619 more hits than Martinez, which is a lot.

But to put this in perspective, Baines reached base in his career by hit, walk, or hit by pitch 3,942 times, a big number. Martinez reached base 3,619 times, closing the hit gap quite a bit. While Baines did reach base 323 more times than Martinez, he did so in 2,418 more plate appearances. Martinez would have to go 1,513 plate appearances without reaching base to lower his OBP to Baines’ level; that’s nearly three full seasons’ worth.

For now at least, only one of those two is a Hall of Famer. Shocking, indeed.

[riggs336]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Metrics of course aren't everything, but sheesh Baines ranks as the 74th best right fielder of all time according to JAWS. He's so far down the list it isn't even funny. Exactly what did he do other than play a long time at a decent level that offsets the tale told by that metric?

I think guys like Allen, Belle, Oliva, Murphy, Garvey who were among the top few best players in the game for a stretch of 5-7 or so years are more worthy.

Two names I haven't seen listed here really deserve consideration IMO:
Ken Boyer and Vada Pinson.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by riggs336

Two names I haven't seen listed here really deserve consideration IMO:
Ken Boyer and Vada Pinson.

If Baines is in, the door is wide open IMO.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by riggs336

Two names I haven't seen listed here really deserve consideration IMO:
Ken Boyer and Vada Pinson.

Good names, the list of guys like this is almost endless. Reggie Smith and Willie Davis actually stack up well (far superior to Baines) even by modern metrics. So does Boyer. Pinson is pretty comparable to Baines, as is a wide selection of guys like Al Oliver, Tommy Davis, and Cesar Cedeno

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Good names, the list of guys like this is almost endless. Reggie Smith and Willie Davis actually stack up well (far superior to Baines) even by modern metrics. So does Boyer. Pinson is pretty comparable to Baines, as is a wide selection of guys like Al Oliver, Tommy Davis, and Cesar Cedeno

Dave Parker. Much more feared hitter than Harold Baines IMO.

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

[CENTER]I played high school football and I can tell the difference between a golf ball and a football. My problem is that I can't always find my golf ball, but I have never lost a football.

So, with that qualification, can we expect your imminent enshrinement next summer in Canton? How's the speech coming? And, can I get a reduction on your pre-HOF auto?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Do not feed the troll!!