Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Fred

Wouldn't it draw the suspicion of auction houses or TPGs if one person kept making submissions of signed T206s, 1933 Goudeys, 1952T etc? Am I missing something? Was the person selling this stuff ungraded and then the buyers were having the cards authenticated by TPGs?

Wouldn't the TPGs see this huge influx of signed cards as a possible indication that something's wrong?

From what I hear, they don't even keep scans of the cards they grade. Talk about a lack of transparency. They should be scanning and uploading each autographed card to a searchable online database. That way the hobby can connect the dots if something is wrong.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Charles, Charley, and Charlie all on one card, that's pretty good.

Some collector I am!

I didn't even notice that, Peter.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by irv

Some collector I am!

I didn't even notice that, Peter.

You may have to Chuck the card now.

[Orioles1954]

There's still a few living players from the 1952 Topps set. Not nearly as difficult as pre-war cards.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You may have to Chuck the card now.

Good one!

[egri]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

There's still a few living players from the 1952 Topps set. Not nearly as difficult as pre-war cards.

The average 1952 Topps is easier than the average pre-war, but there are still plenty of tough signers or players whose demand far outstrips the supply. Fred Hutchinson, Vern Bickford, Vern Stephens and Howie Fox come to mind, as do a lot of the Brooklyn Dodgers.

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

There's still a few living players from the 1952 Topps set. Not nearly as difficult as pre-war cards.

Totally OT, but I having lunch Saturday with Whiz Kid, Bob Miller-who is featured in the 1952 Topps set. 92 years old and still sharp as a tact

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by tazdmb

Totally OT, but I having lunch Saturday with Whiz Kid, Bob Miller-who is featured in the 1952 Topps set. 92 years old and still sharp as a tact

Better take a picture of him signing that card because that is the only proof worthy nowadays.

[painthistorian]

I know there have been posts asking us to post specifics to a very serious criminal activity that does affect the entire industry-FORGED VINTAGE COLLECTIBLES, it sucks and should not be tolerated...I believe e bay has been notified and I believe that certain law enforcement have been notified.....I have spoken to a few people that want to be absolutely sure in collecting facts but I believe the T206's signed are part of a much larger operation.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Better take a picture of him signing that card because that is the only proof worthy nowadays.

Might want to make that video...

[conor912]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

From what I hear, they don't even keep scans of the cards they grade. Talk about a lack of transparency. They should be scanning and uploading each autographed card to a searchable online database. That way the hobby can connect the dots if something is wrong.

Soooo, they don't research the cards, they only reference what "known examples" they already have in their data-base, and they don't keep scans of newly submitted autos to grow said database for reference. How can you get better if you don't collect new data points? Oh, wait...you don't.

For all we know, they're comparing newly faked autos with previously faked autos...."yup, that's a match...slab it!"

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by conor912

Soooo, they don't research the cards, they only reference what "known examples" they already have in their data-base, and they don't keep scans of newly submitted autos to grow said database for reference. How can you get better if you don't collect new data points. Oh, wait...you don't.

For all we know, they're comparing newly faked autos with previously faked autos...."yup, that's a match...slab it!"

My theory is that once 1 fake gets through, it becomes an exemplar. After 2 fakes get through, that's 1 more exemplar, and so on...after a decade or two, the exemplar file will be completely contaminated and no one will know what's real and what's not.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You may have to Chuck the card now.

Originally Posted by irv

Good one!

Chuckle worthy

[Peter_Spaeth]

We should start a poll. Closest to guess the time the name is posted without going over wins.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

We should start a poll. Closest to guess the time the name is posted without going over wins.

6 15 pm EST

[ejharrington]

My hope is that justice includes a full accounting of the extent of the fraud. I have a feeling it could be 100's of cards.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

We should start a poll. Closest to guess the time the name is posted without going over wins.

Peter,
But what if someone knows the name and fixes this poll .

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Peter,
But what if someone knows the name and fixes this poll .

What if the villain turns out be be a beloved board member.

This could end like a bad Scooby Doo episode with a rubber mask being ripped off.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

after a decade or two, the exemplar file will be completely contaminated and no one will know what's real and what's not.

...or after 3-4 years.....starting 3-4 years ago

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

My theory is that once 1 fake gets through, it becomes an exemplar. After 2 fakes get through, that's 1 more exemplar, and so on...after a decade or two, the exemplar file will be completely contaminated and no one will know what's real and what's not.

This is likely the scary truth for some subjects, although I would guess that any autographs of the most popular athletes (and others), such as Mantle, Williams and the ilk, have many verifiable examples to use as the baseline.

[AGuinness]

45 pages of posts already... and on one, somebody mentioned the experience of getting an autograph at a show, taking it to a TPG booth and it not passing.

It hit me - why the heck don't TPGs that have booths at shows offer a service to witness the auto in person and then slab it there, they could even include "WITNESSED" on the flip? I would guess there would be many people willing to shell out extra $$ for this, and it would certainly be a welcome addition for anybody looking to purchase an autograph.

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

45 pages of posts already... and on one, somebody mentioned the experience of getting an autograph at a show, taking it to a TPG booth and it not passing.

It hit me - why the heck don't TPGs that have booths at shows offer a service to witness the auto in person and then slab it there, they could even include "WITNESSED" on the flip? I would guess there would be many people willing to shell out extra $$ for this, and it would certainly be a welcome addition for anybody looking to purchase an autograph.

Excellent point. To me there is no greater proof than a physical witness or at the very least a picture of an athlete signing that particular item (although nowadays you can also photoshop that in).

Also, even TTM autos are a gamble. Many of those autographs are not signed by the actual athlete, but by their assistant or spouse. In the 1970s my mom worked with a high profile actress and she signed all of her autographs for her.

[Pat R]

Here's the Jesse Tannehill.

Tannehill Auto.jpg

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Here's the Jesse Tannehill.

Attachment 335937

Ahhh, finally! I've been looking for that one.

List updated.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Here's the Jesse Tannehill.

Attachment 335937

Thanks for this. I was already going to send mine back to REA, but this means whatever lingering doubt I had can be cast aside.

[Powell]

I'd greatly appreciate any help on the authenticity of the signatures in my signed T 206 collection:

[Jasonxmay]

Powell,

As you know, the Speaker was mine. I know it was owned by a collector here in Oklahoma prior to me purchasing it from Goodwin Auctions. I saw a scan of it on sportscollectors.net around 2008, so I know it’s history at least that far. I don’t personally know the prior owner, but Robert Taylor is a fellow collector here in Oklahoma and he knows him. I believe Robert told me that the prior owner has purchased it over 30 years ago. I can’t speak for the others, but the Speaker definitely existed well before this forger or forgery ring went to work.

Also, I think you were the buyer of the Frank Baker that was proven to be fake. I contacted Brian at REA and approved him withholding the purchase price from my consignment check. He’s a stand up guy and he informed me that he had already refunded the buyer. He’s also refunding me what I paid for the card through REA back in 2015. I’m really impressed with how REA has handled the situation.

Jason

Originally Posted by Powell

I'd greatly appreciate any help on the authenticity of the signatures in my signed T 206 collection:

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Powell

I'd greatly appreciate any help on the authenticity of the signatures in my signed T 206 collection:

In addition to Jason's comments on Speaker above, I can tell you that the following 4 cards in your collection originated from the Pittsburgh Find:

Marquard Portrait (one of 2)
Livingston (only 1)
Both of your McBrides (2 of 6)

Hope this helps. Did you acquire any of the others after October 1, 2015?

[itslarry]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

45 pages of posts already... and on one, somebody mentioned the experience of getting an autograph at a show, taking it to a TPG booth and it not passing.

It hit me - why the heck don't TPGs that have booths at shows offer a service to witness the auto in person and then slab it there, they could even include "WITNESSED" on the flip? I would guess there would be many people willing to shell out extra $$ for this, and it would certainly be a welcome addition for anybody looking to purchase an autograph.

They do for comics. Signature series I believe. Gets a special golden flip.

[swarmee]

I think the main issue with certifying cards at shows of the show signers is mainly of logistics. Since some shows have 5-10 signers at a time, they'd have to have at least that many witnesses.

[johnmh71]

Another example of why I feel that autograph collecting has become both the best and worst hobby.