Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[JoeRand]

Don't have any back pics or the cards with me. I'll need to dig them out and take fresh front and back pics this weekend.

Originally Posted by t206kid

Joe post back pics! Or post which back+factory each card has.

[barrysloate]

As this hobby has evolved, it has become incredibly dependent on third party graders and authenticators. Put something in a slab and it's just a heartbeat away from a world's record price. Bidders can't buy this stuff fast enough.

But we've known for a long time that countless altered, trimmed, and doctored cards find their way into slabs. And this has not dissuaded anybody from bidding on them, as long as the label tells them what they want to hear.

Now with the realization that fake autographs are finding their way into plastic, the hobby has received yet another black eye. And I'm guessing what our fellow board members have dug up on this thread is only the tip of the iceberg.

Something's gotta give. The hobby can't continue on this trajectory forever. TPG's have to find a way to build a better mousetrap. As it stands now, the mice are winning. At the very least, this is going to drive away a lot of collectors. As Corey said elsewhere, the role of provenance is going to play a bigger role in this industry down the road.

[Leon]

JoeRand's card(s).....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Did JSA actually authenticate a facsimile Winston Churchill signature, as I have read?

[atx840]

The Snodgrass, Would have to have been signed 1909 in very late 1909 if its legit.

[atx840]

Carrigan slabbed

[1treasuretrove]

What is the running count of these cards authenticated by:

1. JSA (either by LOA or in SGC slab before “SGC Authentic”)
2. SGC (their own autograph service “SGC Authentic”)
3. PSA/DNA
4. BAS

How many total cards have been definitively photo matched?

The number identified is climbing by the hour it seems. Great detective work, looking forward to when the culprit has been identified. I’m very curious at how the auction houses and TPA’s publicly respond to this (whether most address it at all). This is certainly making the rounds in the word of mouth press for autograph collectors.

[JoeRand]

I didn't think it was actually signed in 1909... I just thought Snodgrass put the year he played there on the card whenever he signed it.

Originally Posted by atx840

The Snodgrass, Would have to have been signed 1909 in very late 1909 if its legit.

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by JoeRand

I didn't think it was actually signed in 1909... I just thought Snodgrass put the year he played there on the card whenever he signed it.

Also that is Piedmont 350 so he couldn't have signed it in 1909.

[atx840]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Also that is Piedmont 350 so he couldn't have signed it in 1909.

Some say they were printed late 1909!

I havent had my morning coffee yet, him signing when he played makes way more sense

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by JoeRand

I didn't think it was actually signed in 1909... I just thought Snodgrass put the year he played there on the card whenever he signed it.

That’s accurate. He came up as a catcher in 1908, and only played 6 games at catcher over his entire 9 year career. He was fond of telling fans about the context of their photos when he responded to their TTM requests. The fact that his other T206 card portrayed him as a catcher was also a topic of his responses.

[tothrk]

I haven't dealt with PSA or SGC or JSA regarding autographs. My question is: Say I submitted one of these T206's to JSA and it came back authentic. If I then send it to PSA or SGC with the JSA authentication to slab it, do they just slab it because JSA authenticated it? Do they have someone else render an opinion? Just how heavily is the JSA stamp of approval relied upon by auction houses? Considering the flowery language used in auction catalogs, I'm assuming that as soon as they see the JSA cert, they deem it good. If SGC returned the Marquard as fake, which is how this all started, who at SGC deemed it fake? Do they have an in-house person do this? At the very least, it sounds like that individual is worth more than JSA. For the record, I have zero financial interest in what is unfolding. Have never bought or sold any vintage autographed cards. Excellent work by these board members though. Also, if I want to slab my own autograph, do I just send it in?

[jad22]

Originally Posted by tothrk

I haven't dealt with PSA or SGC or JSA regarding autographs. My question is: Say I submitted one of these T206's to JSA and it came back authentic. If I then send it to PSA or SGC with the JSA authentication to slab it, do they just slab it because JSA authenticated it? Do they have someone else render an opinion? Just how heavily is the JSA stamp of approval relied upon by auction houses? Considering the flowery language used in auction catalogs, I'm assuming that as soon as they see the JSA cert, they deem it good. If SGC returned the Marquard as fake, which is how this all started, who at SGC deemed it fake? Do they have an in-house person do this? At the very least, it sounds like that individual is worth more than JSA. For the record, I have zero financial interest in what is unfolding. Have never bought or sold any vintage autographed cards. Excellent work by these board members though. Also, if I want to slab my own autograph, do I just send it in?

No, they don't slab it just because JSA or SGC authenticated it. In general I don't they care to see the prior results.

[2dueces]

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I am one so. I've been to card shows since the 80's. 2 of my friends owned card shops from the 80's to the mid 90's. I can count on 2 fingers the amount of signed T206's I saw from 1000's of old cards. Now every auction recently you have your pick of old timers on every brand of card. Put your order in and boom it's signed. This huge signed card business was non existent, I mean zero, zero, zero interest because there just weren't enough out there. No one, not buyers, PSA, SGC, JSA questioned all this signed cards? No one? So since business was good they just kept making them. Sorry JMO.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I am one so. I've been to card shows since the 80's. 2 of my friends owned card shops from the 80's to the mid 90's. I can count on 2 fingers the amount of signed T206's I saw from 1000's of old cards. Now every auction recently you have your pick of old timers on every brand of card. Put your order in and boom it's signed. This huge signed card business was non existent, I mean zero, zero, zero interest because there just weren't enough out there. No one, not buyers, PSA, SGC, JSA questioned all this signed cards? No one? So since business was good they just kept making them. Sorry JMO.

I know there are finds and exceptions, but I have the same general observation about prewar cards in high grade.