"RESTORED" Wagner - how should we feel about this as collectors?

ullmandds · #1 11-28-2018, 07:31 AM

I don't like fake boobs either!!!!!! But the fact is with the internet...and globalization...demand has increased for the iconic cards of the hobby...and I believe this is only the beginning of the "restoration" of cards. I don't like it...but I'm a realist!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvster

these are "cards" ....not "cars"........a huge difference!!!

1)coins are not restored or "recreated" are they

(besides cleaning polishing, distorting them)....NO ONE WOULD ADD MORE GOLD , SILVER, RESTRIKE IT???

2) what about stamps???someone going to add paper and recolor the upside airplane???????

these examples would ADD MATERIAL to something that is original thus altering the integrity of the original!!! thus changing the object...

this Wagner is a RE-CREATION" and not a "RESTORATION"

flip should state "FRANKEN WAGNER RE-CREATION" and not "RESTORED"

think about this....you can only "go by the restoration report"

what if the idiot doing the restoration forgot to add something or delete something he/she didn't do or do to the card?????it is tampered with significantly enough to change this card into something other than an original WAGNER!!!

it has foreign material added to it!!!!!!!!!!(card board from another card, foreign ink that they didn't use back then)

it is ok to soak the card and remove the paper from the back and maybe dirt on it, but that would be enough!!!

this card was altered significantly enough to ruin it!!

someone ruined this card , and some poor sap is going to buy something where technically you don't really know what was done to it!! only an invoice

I don't know, I don't like "fake boobs" either....

if your thing is paying out the asshole for something someone basically re created, more power to you!

don't get me wrong, I am obsessed with owning one, if I had this one, it would drive me nuts to the point of where I would want to trim the fake ass border off!!

THIS IS INSANITY!

I would take the die cut wagner or the wagner cut in 2 before I bought a recreation.....shit, get a reproduction and cut and paste heinie wagner on the fucker

rats60 · #2 11-28-2018, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I don't like fake boobs either!!!!!! But the fact is with the internet...and globalization...demand has increased for the iconic cards of the hobby...and I believe this is only the beginning of the "restoration" of cards. I don't like it...but I'm a realist!

So what next? Is someone going to cut a real Wagner in two and make 2 Wagners by "restoring" them? Where does it stop? Restored Wagner 10% real? 5%? 1%?

C-mack · #3 11-28-2018, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

So what next? Is someone going to cut a real Wagner in two and make 2 Wagners by "restoring" them? Where does it stop? Restored Wagner 10% real? 5%? 1%?

I'm sure card grading companies much like comic grading companies require X amount of the original to be present for them to give it an grade with restore notations. In comics you cant just have a page of action #1 and recreate the rest and still get a grade,hell you cant even have the whole interior and fake covers and pull that off...

mrvster · #4 11-28-2018, 08:13 AM

great point!!

where does it end?????

where do we draw the line????

there is a fine line between restoration and recreation.....where do we draw it in cards????????????

the answer is-

WE DON'T

leave them original! unless a light soaking in plain water of foreign material (scrap book removal, simple dirt, ect)

mrvster · #5 11-28-2018, 08:16 AM

grading companies change the rules all the time.......sometimes just to fit their needs.....

who is to say what percentage the card needs to be to be considered original?>??

i'll say it.....ALL OF IT!!

if it is trimmed, it can get and authentic....

once ANYTHING, I MEAN ANYTHING IS ADDED TO A CARD...the card is no longer an original...it is a recreation

it is a simple as that

THE WAGNER SHOULD READ- "RECREATION"

mrvster · #6 11-28-2018, 08:43 AM

I wonder what type of ink was used for all the touch up????? the shit from a photo copier??? or did they hit Sherman Williams?????

also, I wonder if they went green and used recycled cardboard ????? or just hacked up another T206???? I wonder if the used a TITUS???

I can go on, and on....

ullmandds · #7 11-28-2018, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvster

I wonder what type of ink was used for all the touch up????? the shit from a photo copier??? or did they hit Sherman Williams?????

also, I wonder if they went green and used recycled cardboard ????? or just hacked up another T206???? I wonder if the used a TITUS???

I can go on, and on....

Hopefully they used a titus Johny...or maybe a scrap!!!!! I'd assume any card restorer worth their weight in cardboard would destroy another t206 for the mulch needed for restoration.

mrvster · #8 11-28-2018, 08:50 AM

excellent point.....

there should be FULL DISCLOSURE! putting that in the description was purposely left out....jeeze...every ah puts in a whole blown up financial analysis .... why wouldn't they put this in????

it truly shows how extensive this franken - wagner is......full disclosure would have shown the card used to add to the borders....

the invoice and before and after pic should have been in the description....

it really shows how EXTENSIVE THE RECREATION IS!

spend a quarter of a million on a re creation?????

Snapolit1 · #9 11-28-2018, 08:14 AM

It's disclosed. That the sort of honest dialog we want as collectors. Buy it if you want a restored card.

ullmandds · #10 11-28-2018, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

It's disclosed. That the sort of honest dialog we want as collectors. Buy it if you want a restored card.

I agree...as long as it is disclosed...I'm ok with it. BUT...when cards like this are sold/auctioned the before and after should always be shown...we shouldn't have to hunt for it.

ls7plus · #11 11-28-2018, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

It's disclosed. That the sort of honest dialog we want as collectors. Buy it if you want a restored card.

That's the be-all and end-all bottom line, to me.

Hi Steve,

Larry

biggsdaddycool · #12 11-28-2018, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

So what next? Is someone going to cut a real Wagner in two and make 2 Wagners by "restoring" them? Where does it stop? Restored Wagner 10% real? 5%? 1%?

This!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Throttlesteer · #13 11-28-2018, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggsdaddycool

This!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

China is busy cloning them

biggsdaddycool · #14 11-28-2018, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

China is busy cloning them

This may not be far from the truth, with the hobby becoming increasingly global and �investment� centered.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mrvster · #15 11-28-2018, 07:52 AM

you and I and a few other "purists" not trying to label us or anyone, I think Jeff might agree and Barry ect.....

This sort of restoration should never make it into cards.......it opens the flood gates !!! this, to me, would ruin part of our hobby in a way.....

forgers and restorers will become synonamous

there is almost a beauty to cards that may have been well loved and creased and some paper loss, but those are the scars of time.....

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....

hate to use the analogy, fake boobs feel "hard" when touched!

nice to look at, but they are the doctors creation!

that is a whole other discussion

I wouldn't play with what God created!

God also created the Wagner card.....

yes, I like restored cars, especially when you are driving it for safety......an old muscle card with new suspension and brakes are a safety issue, but I still love the "herky jerky " steering of the original muscle car!!

these alterations may enhace the look of titties or handling on a car.....but when it comes to cardboard, it is just not right!!

not all change is good, especially some of the political climate now adays....

but I do know one thing, excepting recreations like this may aid in the further pollution of out hobby...

some asshole will "enhance a t206" by autographing it themselves.....soon cards will have "BUILT UP RESTORED CORNERS" OR "BEAUTIFUL NEW COLOR AND GLOSS"

and all we will have to rely on is a "restorer"

mrvster · #16 11-28-2018, 07:58 AM

and was going to start this thread, so I am glad the original poster did......I did not want to "dog" this card, or the take away the buyers thunder or the seller.......

yes, I have been searching for a Wagner my whole life(since 11 years old) and came close many years ago , but did not get one.....

and full disclosure- I would take a Wagner anyway I could....I , like many, can not afford one.......so if someone offered this too me at a cheap price, I would take it.....but not even at 10% of what it is now!!!!

this needs to be discussed, because RATS you are 100% correct....

who ever buys this.......have it cut into 24 wagners......and restore each one

each one can have a "piece" of the original....

then we can truly call it what it is and where to hobby would be going.....

to shit

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