Did I buy a Fake Marquard Signed T206?

[Bpm0014]

Now to only find out who purchased it/submitted it....

[Republicaninmass]

Maybe the sale is on VCP? We could see the seller and buyer, or at least it's a start. I'm not sure worth point had than info

[calvindog]

This is why you have to be insane to spend a lot of money on a "signed" card.

[Leon]

I am told by a very reliable source that the autograph was authenticated by Jimmy Spence himself at the CleanSweep Auctions office.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am told by a very reliable source that the autograph was authenticated by Jimmy Spence himself at the CleanSweep Auctions office.

Can your source find out if all of the William autos were in the same group being submitted.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Can your source find out if all of the William autos were in the same group being submitted.

He said they were not. It is a completely different source.

[daves_resale_shop]

Originally Posted by Leon

He said they were not. It is a completely different source.

One of those williams is in this months clean sweep auction... something doesnt smell right here

[Bigdaddy]

As someone said above, kudos to SGC on this one. And Manny also.

Very interesting to see where this trail leads. So much info is available or stored electronically these days, and with the short time frame from PSA encapsulated card to defaced T206, I would be surprised if a trail of ownership can't be put together shortly.

I'm going to have to binge watch this thread like a new season of 'Stranger Things'.

[T206Collector]

Autograph collecting is a scary hobby, and this kind of revelation can shock it to the core. But it’s not any more scary to me than dealing in unsigned but valuable pre-war cards, which are susceptible to fraud as well (see Mastro Wagner).

Hopefully this kind of discovery will help strengthen the hobby in the long run by reminding us all how careful you have to be. Provenance is important, but hard to find in many cases. On the valuable ones, I try to have more than one authenticator review the item. But as long as authenticators are human they will make mistakes.

The sad irony of our hobby - cards and autographs - is that if PSA or JSA say the item isn’t good, then it doesn’t even matter if you pulled the card from a pack, or got the signature yourself in person. If a card doctor or forger is successful, the item gains an unjustified legitimacy as long as we continue to buy the holder not the card.

I’ll be updating the signed T206 Marquard pages to remove this one, and possibly the other one done in exactly the same spot and angle described here. It’s a damn shame, but the prevalence of signed T206 Marquards earning $1,000+ hammer prices appears to have invited forgers into this game. Marquard’s is such a common signature it is apparently all the more likely to pass the glazed eyes of a third-party authenticator.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Marquard’s is such a common signature it is apparently all the more likely to pass the glazed eyes of a third-party authenticator.

Apparently some moreso than others

[tmw2ward]

He died in 1980 at the age of 94. Wouldn't the sharpie signature be the first clue that this card was likely faked?

[theshleps]

Quote from T206 collector-I’ll be updating the signed T206 Marquard pages to remove this one, and possibly the other one done in exactly the same spot and angle described here.

I am hoping mine got from sig auctions and posted here was just the autograph the other with the photomatched card copied from as to angle, etc. since we do not have the exact presigned card located. Sometimes when I find out things like this I ewant to just sell the whole collection, depressing. I don't blame JSA. Even the Mayo clinic admits that physicians diagnosis is incorrect at least 20+% of the time. Mistakes will be made- it is just knowing that JSA, PSA etc are only opinions and much of the time by knowledgable folks.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am told by a very reliable source that the autograph was authenticated by Jimmy Spence himself at the CleanSweep Auctions office.

I know, I know, but this is worth a read on Mr. Spence.

[SetBuilder]

This can't be the only one. Each T206 card has a unique appearance that acts like a sort of fingerprint.

We should put together some kind of distributed research project where a high resolution scan of a signed T206 card appears side-by-side with all of the scans of known auction records. If the card isn't a match, you hit "next" over and over until all are viewed. Multiple people can go through 100,000+ cards fairly quickly.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

This can't be the only one. Each T206 card has a unique appearance that acts like a sort of fingerprint.

We should put together some kind of distributed research project where a high resolution scan of a signed T206 card appears side-by-side with all of the scans of known auction records. If the card isn't a match, you hit "next" over and over until all are viewed. Multiple people can go through 100,000+ cards fairly quickly.

I think this is a great idea for anyone looking to purchase a signed T206 that hasn't been identified yet. I have a pretty good database (or at least paper trail) on perhaps close to all of the signed T206s known to date, which would include any that have come up for auction since at least April 2007, if not earlier. If a new one pops up, part of the evaluation of the card's legitimacy for a prospective buyer should include a search through recent auctions for unsigned versions of that card. Obviously that will not always be practical or even possible. But it is an additional step in the right direction.

[22eckstein]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

This can't be the only one. Each T206 card has a unique appearance that acts like a sort of fingerprint.

We should put together some kind of distributed research project where a high resolution scan of a signed T206 card appears side-by-side with all of the scans of known auction records. If the card isn't a match, you hit "next" over and over until all are viewed. Multiple people can go through 100,000+ cards fairly quickly.

pretty good idea if enough people participated!