T206 Cobb Bat On Shoulder PSA 5 - PWCC

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by swarmee

If the card was determined to pressed down to remove the crease, they would have returned it as Altered Stock or graded as Authentic-Altered based on the request of the submitter.

It is in a 5 holder so obviously it was not determined to be pressed down however it is clear that PSA opted to disregard the observation that Brent made about the fact it had been pressed down or Brent is wrong about what he is seeing and he just trashed a consignor's card.

PSA's grading standards have obviously changed over the years and maybe 15 or 20 years ago a card that had evidence of having a crease pressed out would have been given the N5 but maybe now when it is subtle, as Brent suggests, the grading companies ignore it and down grade the card as if the wrinkle is still there. Hobby evolution...

[bigfish]

The PWCC video is a bad Saturday night live skit. They disclose the card as being altered only to later give it one of their BS “hi end” stickers. I can’t get over how ridiculous this is.

Toby Peters@n

[bounce]

Just add this card to the altered/restored/ignore debate.

I've heard and read the arguments that the hobby has "matured", or should, to accept certain things and maybe that does make sense. I think it does, but again that needs to come with disclosure and education.

The problem, as I see it, is that these issues have not really been dealt with by the third party authenticators. Worse, there are too may instances of not consistently applying their own standards. This card is a clear example of that, and there are many many others that have been discussed on the board previously (anyone remember that Play Ball Dimaggio?).

The perceived "favoritism" (?) given to certain customers/consignors by all the other parties involved further complicates the issue. Some of it is borderline/outright "willful ignorance" in my view, all in the name of ever increasing prices.

That inconsistency alone adds to the "tremendous volatility" in prices and grading, none of which truly contributes to a healthy marketplace.

[puckpaul]

sure seems ridiculous to grade this a 5 with a crease. sure, there is disclosure here in the video and writeup, but the 5 allows for someone in the future to be tricked by this. don't like it. grading it for the crease would allow the card to be sold at whatever the market would bear, if someone wants to pay "5 prices" then, so be it, but to grade it a 5 is not right.

[Leon]

Disclosure is the main thing to me. IF I know what I am buying then all is good. Unfortunately the TPG's are human and can only catch so much. Beware of high grade, small cards. Years ago borders were bigger.

Originally Posted by bounce

Just add this card to the altered/restored/ignore debate.

I've heard and read the arguments that the hobby has "matured", or should, to accept certain things and maybe that does make sense. I think it does, but again that needs to come with disclosure and education.

The problem, as I see it, is that these issues have not really been dealt with by the third party authenticators. Worse, there are too may instances of not consistently applying their own standards. This card is a clear example of that, and there are many many others that have been discussed on the board previously (anyone remember that Play Ball Dimaggio?).

The perceived "favoritism" (?) given to certain customers/consignors by all the other parties involved further complicates the issue. Some of it is borderline/outright "willful ignorance" in my view, all in the name of ever increasing prices.

That inconsistency alone adds to the "tremendous volatility" in prices and grading, none of which truly contributes to a healthy marketplace.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by Leon

Disclosure is the main thing to me. IF I know what I am buying then all is good. Unfortunately the TPG's are human and can only catch so much. Beware of high grade, small cards. Years ago borders were bigger.

They still are on the caramels. Like little, fluffy marshmallows

[Leon]

LOL...trust me, there are short borders on caramels too.

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

They still are on the caramels. Like little, fluffy marshmallows

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Anyone who has Joe Orlando's ear want to share this with him? I'm sure he wouldn't be amused that PWCC is making a public fool out of him.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Maybe I'm slow, but where does Brent allude to the pressing of the wrinkle?

[dplath]

I thought he alluded to the crease being pressed by calling it “virtually absent.” In my mind I thought he was implying that the crease was more severe at one time, but now that I type this I realize that’s up to interpretation and could just be because I know that it was more severe at one time. Nonetheless, he’s clear about it in the video.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Maybe I'm slow, but where does Brent allude to the pressing of the wrinkle?

In the video. Pretty risky if someone cracked out a nice 5 to try to press out a wrinkle. Although with those corners I suppose this was the card to try it on. Kind of ironic if they almost succeeded only to end up with the card back in a 5 holder.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

So I'm back to "anyone wanna share this with Joe O?"

[pokerplyr80]

Send him an email. I'd be surprised if he cares.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Maybe I'm slow, but where does Brent allude to the pressing of the wrinkle?

At 1:06 on the video.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

It is in a 5 holder so obviously it was not determined to be pressed down however it is clear that PSA opted to disregard the observation that Brent made about the fact it had been pressed down or Brent is wrong about what he is seeing and he just trashed a consignor's card.

PSA's grading standards have obviously changed over the years and maybe 15 or 20 years ago a card that had evidence of having a crease pressed out would have been given the N5 but maybe now when it is subtle, as Brent suggests, the grading companies ignore it and down grade the card as if the wrinkle is still there. Hobby evolution...

So let me understand. If a card has a crease pressed out of it, it still gets a number grade. However, if a card was kept in a screw down holder, it is altered. Doesn't make sense to me.

[swarmee]

You guys are thinking that PSA actually determined it to be pressed out. They obviously didn't detect that. So with a miniscule surface wrinkle (only one side visible), they gave it a 5. That's SOP (maybe slightly generous) for them.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by swarmee

You guys are thinking that PSA actually determined it to be pressed out. They obviously didn't detect that. So with a miniscule surface wrinkle (only one side visible), they gave it a 5. That's SOP (maybe slightly generous) for them.

Brent states he sees the crease was pressed out at 1:06 in the video. Nobody can speak for PSA but the fact that it is in a holder implies they let it by, if we assume Brent knows what he is looking at. Sure PSA graders all know what a partially pressed out crease looks like because most advanced collectors do as well. Sounds like PSA has a sliding scale on rejecting cards based on the severity of the work.

[Stonepony]

Do pressed out wrinkles/ creases sometimes " reappear" ?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Do pressed out wrinkles/ creases sometimes " reappear" ?

Yes

[itslarry]

They press comics all the time and no one seems to care. Or cards that get soaked.