Are UZIT cards as scarce as BROAD LEAF 460 cards ?

[tedzan]

Hey Pat


Looks like you stayed up till 1 AM in the morning searching thru my 6896 posts trying to find something negative to "slam" me with.
This is not the 1st time you have resorted to this type of "negative" posts here against me. You have done this numerous times over
the past years.

I have never INITIATED negative posts against you. However, I have responded to your's. As Billy Joel once said...... "I DIDN'T START THIS FIRE" !

For whatever reason(s), you seem to have a problem with me. Well, just email me and we can discuss whatever privately online. I'm an easy going
guy and I'm sure we can resolve our differences privately.

Anyway, your time would be better spent informing your buddies at T206resource that they are misleading T206 collectors by claiming the following
cards are confirmed.....

Ames (hands above head) with AB 460
Ames (hands above head) with UZIT

Chance (batting) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42
Bergen (catching) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42
Murray (portrait) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42
Overall (blue sky) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42

Hey guy, I am not the only one on this forum that has told them of these errors in their listings.


Incidentally, that old post of mine regarding the blue Chase with a DRUM back was a mistake. I subsequently corrected it. I have been
looking for this DRUM card since the mid-1980's to complete my blue Chase sub-set...…









TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Pat


Looks like you stayed up till 1 AM in the morning searching thru my 6896 posts trying to find something negative to "slam" me with.
This is not the 1st time you have resorted to this type of "negative" posts here against me. You have done this numerous times over
the past years.

I have never INITIATED negative posts against you. However, I have responded to your's. As Billy Joel once said...... "I DIDN'T START THIS FIRE" !

For whatever reason(s), you seem to have a problem with me. Well, just email me and we can discuss whatever privately online. I'm an easy going
guy and I'm sure we can resolve our differences privately.

Anyway, your time would be better spent informing your buddies at T206resource that they are misleading T206 collectors by claiming the following
cards are confirmed.....

Ames (hands above head) with AB 460
Ames (hands above head) with UZIT

Chance (batting) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42
Bergen (catching) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42
Murray (portrait) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42
Overall (blue sky) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42

Hey guy, I am not the only one on this forum that has told them of these errors in their listings.


Incidentally, that old post of mine regarding the blue Chase with a DRUM back was a mistake. I subsequently corrected it. I have been
looking for this DRUM card since the mid-1980's to complete my blue Chase sub-set...…





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

No Ted I didn't stay up all night searching your posts.

You responded to Jay that you had the number of confirmed Drums at
151 and I responded that t206 research had the number at 153.

When you made your fake news comment (you could have said error or mistake)
it did piss me off and I was pretty sure they weren't the first to confirm Chase
(blue portrait) and Matty (dark cap) so I started with the
confirmed Drum list in your reference thread to see if I could find who
might have confirmed them.

In that post you provided this link

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=90139

which led to this link
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/net5...1.html#p266235

this is the thread that you confirmed the Chase in and it took me about
five minutes in all to find it.

Maybe you don't think you initiated a negative post with your
fake news comment but I do.

I don't think I've ever initiated a negative post against you. I do
admit that I have several times in response to one of yours but if
I did point it out and I will apologize here in this thread.

[barrysloate]

Around 1990, I received a letter from an old time collector who was selling off his collection. Among the offerings was this group of 27 Uzits which he was asking $1250 for, or about $46 a card. I passed. The reason I did so- and are you ready for this- I felt it would be too difficult to resell such a large group, and that I would end up getting stuck with a bunch of them.

I equate my decision to pass with Decca Records decision to pass on the Beatles after their January, 1962 audition because, in their reasoning, who would want to listen to a rock-and-roll guitar band? The point is not to wallow in my stupidity but to suggest that it would be virtually impossible to put together a group of 27 Broadleaf 460's in a lifetime, or nearly impossible for sure. And although it's a small sample, it's enough to tell me that BL 460's are much more difficult to acquire than Uzits.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Around 1990, I received a letter from an old time collector who was selling off his collection. Among the offerings was this group of 27 Uzits which he was asking $1250 for, or about $46 a card. I passed. The reason I did so- and are you ready for this- I felt it would be too difficult to resell such a large group, and that I would end up getting stuck with a bunch of them.

I equate my decision to pass with Decca Records decision to pass on the Beatles after their January, 1962 audition because, in their reasoning, who would want to listen to a rock-and-roll guitar band? The point is not to wallow in my stupidity but to suggest that it would be virtually impossible to put together a group of 27 Broadleaf 460's in a lifetime, or nearly impossible for sure. And although it's a small sample, it's enough to tell me that BL 460's are much more difficult to acquire than Uzits.

Hi Barry

I have to chuckle over your..... "but to suggest that it would be virtually impossible to put together a group of 27 Broadleaf 460's in a lifetime, or nearly impossible for sure.".

Would you say the same (or even "absolutely impossible") in finding a group of 51 - DRUM's ?

From one collection in 2009, Ron Oser and I counted out 51 cards with DRUM backs....43 were T206's and 8 were T205's. We had adjacent booths at the Philly Show and Ron
brought them over to me, and we sat there like two kids in a candy store sorting out these cards from a T206 find.

So, my point here is that "a group of 27 Broadleaf 460's in a lifetime" is far from an impossible achievement.

Thanks for sharing your story with us....very interesting.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[t206kid]

Barry,

This story is awesome. I'm inclined to agree with your reasoning but a motivated collector with a lot of money can sometimes achieve some crazy results.

Ted, what do you think of my numbers?

[tedzan]

Pat

You misconstrued my "fake news" comment. It absolutely was NOT directed at you.

I was referring to T206Resource's mis-leading the T206 collector's by claiming that these cards have been confirmed...…NOT TRUE !

Ames (hands above head) with AB 460
Ames (hands above head) with UZIT

Chance (batting) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42
Bergen (catching) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42
Murray (portrait) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42
Overall (blue sky) with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42

That there is the "fake news" which I was referring to.

OK, enough of that.


In your current thread, I had an idea by posting my Tom Jones cards that would help your theory regarding the Elite 11 with respect
to their PIEDMONT 350 and EPDG back printings. So, I posted these cards for you......





And, these cards proved to be of help. I was happy to read your response......

Originally Posted by Pat R

I think Ted's PD350 Jones is important piece of the puzzle.

It eliminates the only explanation I can think of that the
EPDG's weren't printed before PD350's that the PD350's
were printed using different plates than the PD150 and EPDG's.
but with the same mark on a PD150,PD350 and EPDG we can
rule that out. So a flaw would be found on a slightly smaller
% PD350 vs EPDG for the elite eleven and would be very
low % for a non elite eleven subject.

It also provides what I think is a pretty solid theory for the
mystery in the scarcity of the elite eleven with PD350 backs.

Ted's Jones is the first PD350 print flaw I've seen on any 350
back the theory I have is that ALC used pre-printed 150 sheets
while they were re-doing the plates for the 350 backs.

This theory is supported by the numbers I have for the print flaws.
If the EPDG printing began at the tail end of the PD150 the
printing flaws would be found at a higher % on EPDG
vs PD150 which they are. They would also be found at a slightly
higher % EPDG vs PD350 with the elite eleven and a very low %
for the non elite eleven subjects.


If they did use pre-printed sheets and they omitted the elite eleven
on the redone 350 sheets whether it was intentional or accidental it
would account for the scarcity of the elite eleven PD350's and they
would be a little less scarce with EPDG's because some of them
would have come from the tail end PD150 printing.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Jay

I started counting from your list and stopped when I saw Crandall with a TWO besides it. Crandall is an "Exclusive 12" subject. I have been
closely tracking these 12 cards for years. This Crandall / UZIT is a unique card. It should have a ONE next to it.

Furthermore, the Cobb (bat off shoulder) number of 12 is ridiculous. The last time I checked the Pop Report data on this card it was a TEN.
And, since that number includes at least two RE-GRADES, the real number should be an EIGHT.


I'm sorry, but there is something wrong with a lot of your numbers.

Abbaticchio Ed Blue Sleeves 1
Ames Red Hands above Head 0
Ball Neal Cleveland 0
Bell George Follow Thru 1
Berger Heinie 7
Bradley Bill Batting 2
Bridwell Al Cap 0
Burch Al Fielding 3
Camnitz Howie Arm at Side 0
Camnitz Howie Hands Over Head 0
Chase Hal Holding Trophy 6
Cobb Ty Bat off Shoulder 12
Conroy Wid Batting 3
Crandall Doc Cap 2
----------------------------------------

Furthermore......Herzog (Boston) with a 2

This was originally my card (Graded SGC 45). Sold it to David Hall and he had it re-graded (PSA 3). It's a unique card, and should have a ONE.

There are a number of UZIT's in your list that I question their numbers. To be frank with you, I'm tired of debating this. I have double-checked
my count with the SGC and PSA listings regarding these 58 cards with UZIT backs; and, again I have arrived at a number of 179 (- 2) = 177.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Around 1990, I received a letter from an old time collector who was selling off his collection. Among the offerings was this group of 27 Uzits which he was asking $1250 for, or about $46 a card. I passed. The reason I did so- and are you ready for this- I felt it would be too difficult to resell such a large group, and that I would end up getting stuck with a bunch of them.

Barry, those UZITS are missing so many color passes - I would have passed on them too