Attention T206 experts - I need help

[hcv123]

I mostly collect postwar, but have an 11 year old who I have gotten excited about collecting and he wants to collect "older cards (1900's-1930's). I want to put together a T206 Pirates team set with him. Budget matters. I want cards with nice eye appeal and here's the part where I need your help:

I want to end up with one of each front and if possible all different backs. So what front back combinations would be easiest on the bank account to put together?

I sent a PM to Ted who is graciously working on the question - but figured I might find some help here.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Howard

[nat]

Hmmm... there might be a problem with a T206 Pirates set...

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by nat

Hmmm... there might be a problem with a T206 Pirates set...

I don't know why, there's like 20 on ebay right now. Apparently they're not so scarce after all...

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I don't know why, there's like 20 on ebay right now. Apparently they're not so scarce after all...

A guy named Johannes.

[Sean]

I would start with Wagner with a Sweet Caporal back. The Piedmont version will be too expensive.

[that T206 Guy]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I mostly collect postwar, but have an 11 year old who I have gotten excited about collecting and he wants to collect "older cards (1900's-1930's). I want to put together a T206 Pirates team set with him. Budget matters. I want cards with nice eye appeal and here's the part where I need your help:

I want to end up with one of each front and if possible all different backs. So what front back combinations would be easiest on the bank account to put together?

I sent a PM to Ted who is graciously working on the question - but figured I might find some help here.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Howard

1. Old Mill brown
2. Lenox brown
3. Broad Leaf 460
4. Drum
5. Uzit
6. Hindu red
7. Lenox black
8. Broad Leaf 350
9. American Beauty 460
10. Blank -might want to take this one off the list all together
11. Carolina Brights
12. Hindu brown
13. American Beauty 350 no frame
14. Sovereign 460
15. Cycle 460
16. Piedmont 350-460 factory 42
17. Tolstoi
18. Sweet Caporal 350-460 factory 25
19. EPDG
20. American Beauty 350 frame
21. Sovereign 350 apple green -350-460 series cards only (66 cards)
22. Sweet Caporal 350-460 factory 42
23. Cycle 350
24. Old Mill south
25. Sovereign 150
26. Sweet Caporal 150 factory 649 overprint
27. Sweet Caporal 350-460 factory 42 scroll
28. Old Mill
29. Polar Bear
30. Sovereign 350 series forest green
31. Sweet Caporal 150 factory 25
32. Sweet Caporal 350-460 factory 30
33. Sweet Caporal 150 factory 30
34. Piedmont 150 factory 25
35. Piedmont 350-460 factory 25
36. Sweet Caporal 350 factory 25
37. Sweet Caporal 350 factory 30
38. Piedmont 350 factory 25

#1 is the Rarest.
#38 Most Common.

If you are going by just Advertiser and not Factory

Piedmont and Sweet Caporal are the Most Common Backs (Those 2 Alone are a HUGE Chunk of all the T206 Backs - Around 80 Percent).

Then Polar Bear.

Then Sovereign and Old Mill.

They can get very very expensive after that.

[that T206 Guy]

From some Data Collected from eBay and Other Auction Sales over the Years.

BACK NUMBER PERCENTAGE
Ty Cobb 6 0.01
Uzit 98 0.11
Drum 108 0.12
Lenox 159 0.18
Broad Leaf 216 0.24
Carolina Brights 224 0.25
Hindu 404 0.45
Cycle 955 1.06
American Beauty 966 1.07
Tolstoi 1,117 1.24
El Principe De Gales 1,288 1.43
Sovereign 3,557 3.94
Polar Bear 4,262 4.72
Old Mill 4,802 5.32
Sweet Caporal 24,080 26.66
Piedmont 48,072 53.23

90,314 Total Cards

That is Hard to Read I Apoligize.

I tried to Edit that off Excel but it still came out bad once I hit Post.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Sean

I would start with Wagner with a Sweet Caporal back. The Piedmont version will be too expensive.

Only cost about 400k in an authentic holder.

[hcv123]

So let me clarify:

1 - Until I hit the lottery Wagner will be missing from the collection
2 - I want a single copy of all the front pose variations and I want the whole collection to be different backs in the most budget conscious way possible. I do not want 1 of each back possible. So for example:

Clarke Portrait - Sweet Cap
Clarke batting - piedmont
Dots Miller - polar bear

etc.

So, to continue:
What would be the checklist of all pirates front pose variations and then what would be the most cost effective backs (with the understanding that I prefer no duplication of backs) to get them (ie. least expensive player with most expensive back, most expensive player with least expensive back - I would think - but that's why I am asking you - because I know it doesn't always go that way). No Wagner and if it requires a front back combo that is cost prohibitive, then the constraints may change, but let's see what it is.... Thanks again. Based on what T206 guy offered - let's call different factories - "different backs" for purposes of this collection.

Howard

[rats60]

After Wagner, Clarke and Willis are your most expensive cards, so you would want to get them in the easiest backs, Sweet Caporal and Piedmont. After that, i would just look for Pirates in the particular back and buy them. For example, I had a Camnitz in an Old Mill back, which is an easier back, but I could only find a couple of sales.

T206 resource has checklists. There are 18 players besides Wagner. From there you should be able to look on there to find possible backs and figure out which backs you want to go for, sounds like you don't want to pay 4 figures for Drum or Uzit. PSA has their data base of completed auctions, so you can get an idea of cost for different grades. It is not just easy to say I want player A in back B because you may be waiting years for that card to come up for sale.

[hcv123]

I will start making my list and checking it twice. Don't mind one or two low 4 figure cards - need some special ones for the kids you know

[bbcard1]

I think it's doable. Probably a Carolina Brights will be the rarest back you will snag, but you should still have enough variation to get a different back for each Pirate. I sold a CB back Phillippe at auction and regret it.

[tedzan]

Hi Howard

Here is the T206 list of Pittsburgh subjects. I listed them with respect to the Series these cards are in.
So that you know which backs that they were printed with. I'll post the various backs as a function of
the Series they were printed in, in my next post.

150 Series
Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Camnitz (arms folded)
Fred Clarke (portrait)
Fred Clarke (bat)
Gibson
Leach (portrait)
Leifield (pitching)
Wagner
Willis (portrait)

350-only Series
Abstein
Maddox
Miller
Phillippe
Wilson

350/460 Series
Leach (cap)
Leifield (batting)

460-only Series
Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Camnitz (arms over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[hcv123]

That's Awesome Ted. Thank you!

Hope to get started with this project when we hit the national this year! Will post progress (if anyone wants to see it).

Howard

[tedzan]

Here you go Howard

Twelve T-brand backs were printed on the T206 Subjects in the 150 Series............





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Here's the group of 15 advertisement backs that were printed on the T206 Subjects in the 350-only Series............


.................................................. Factory #30

............................. Factory #25






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Illustrated here are the 22 advertisement backs that were printed on the T206 Subjects in the 350/460 Series............


460-type backs




.
............. Factory #42 .............



350-type backs




Assorted backs





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I will start making my list and checking it twice. Don't mind one or two low 4 figure cards - need some special ones for the kids you know

Uzit goes for about 2k, Drum for about 5k. The other harder backs for around 1k or less. It sounds like you might be able to do everything but Drum. That is what I have done for my set. It would be neat to get as many different brands possible and then fill in with different series or factories for the others. You should just post on BST to see what members have. Unfortunately, I got rid of my last extras at the May Chicago show.

[Paul S]

Good luck on a very cool endeavor - and a great way to teach delayed gratification

[hcv123]

Ted and everyone else who contributed - thank you!

[Jobu]

I would take Ted's list and search each of them here to see which backs they come with:

http://t206resource.com/Checklist.html

That ought to let you create some specific targets.

Good luck in the hunt!

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Jobu

I would take Ted's list and search each of them here to see which backs they come with:

http://t206resource.com/Checklist.html

That ought to let you create some specific targets.

Good luck in the hunt!

Thank you again. Printed out a page on each pose variation and the list of different confirmed backs. Placed (probably prematurely) a post on BST and away we go.....

[Bpm0014]

As a long time T206 collector, if I had to give you some advice...

Put the team set together regardless of back. Once you have assembled the entire team (sans Wagner), THEN start finding some of the various backs and switch them out. I kind of did this with my set. I bought as many players as I could to try and complete the set, then started "upgrading" the cards to nicer ones...

[that T206 Guy]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

As a long time T206 collector, if I had to give you some advice...

Put the team set together regardless of back. Once you have assembled the entire team (sans Wagner), THEN start finding some of the various backs and switch them out. I kind of did this with my set. I bought as many players as I could to try and complete the set, then started "upgrading" the cards to nicer ones...

Excellent Idea.

I Imagine Waiting for those Rare Backs in Some Combination would be Very Very Frustrating as it would Take Forever.

[hcv123]

WOW! Have we learned a lot! Thanks for the jump start here guys. We found T206 resource and Luke's blog a big help too. We have all the Pirates and backs in a spreadsheet and we are well on our way. We have have 10 different backs and 12 different fronts so far. Bought our first 2 at the National. Grades are a little all over the place - mostly looking for cards with nice eye appeal. Making exceptions for rare front/back combos. Here is what we have so far. A couple of cracker Jacks and a T207 for good measure! So it looks like the Carolina Brights, Broad leaf, Lennox black, Uzit and Drum are going to take some time (and $$). Your comments and input as always are invited.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

As a long time T206 collector, if I had to give you some advice...

Put the team set together regardless of back. Once you have assembled the entire team (sans Wagner), THEN start finding some of the various backs and switch them out. I kind of did this with my set. I bought as many players as I could to try and complete the set, then started "upgrading" the cards to nicer ones...

This. Plus, it's an easier pill to swallow when you're upgrading at $5-20 a pop (random range depending on the back) instead of $50-70 up front (commons are around $20).

Thank you for getting your son engaged in Pre-War. Keep This Hobby Great!

[Marslife]

Hey All!

i'm working on a 209 card Pirates master set, here is a portion of the Excel spreadsheet I use:

DSCF0029.jpg

TTYL!

Cliff