Applying today's societal lens against the HOFers of yesterday

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

This thread needs a card.

Agreed. And a photo.

[drcy]

The problem with judging people 100 or 150 years ago by today's standards is that people today are also pretty stupid and myopic and will be similarly judged by standards 100 and 150 years in the future. Or, as I.F. Stone said, "Each generation sets its own blinkers then claims its vision is unimpeded." Just one error of a know-it-all is that that he claims to know it all.

Expecting, or even wanting, others to be perfect in all ways is a sign of intellectual and emotional immaturity-- and almost assuredly hypocrisy. The vocally morally sanctimonious are nearly always applying standards to others that they aren't applying to themselves. In fact, being sanctimonious and expecting others (but not oneself) to be perfect are psychological conditions if not fronts. Forget others' faults and go see a therapist.

Duly note that many historical figures retain their interest, and collectibility, because they are complex, dichotomous figures: Ty Cobb, Patton, Nixon, Johnny Cash, William T. Sherman, Billy Holiday. Joe Jackson material wouldn't be as valuable as it is today if he weren't associated with the World Series scandal. Al Capone, Jesse James and Bonnie & Clyde are collected and hold interest entirely because they were outlaws.

I've long found it interesting that qualities that make living people social lepers make them appealing as long dead historical figures. I mean, when you read about them, you realize that some of the Western outlaws and Prohibition-era gangsters were essentially serial killers.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by drcy

The problem with judging people 100 or 150 years ago by today's standards is that people today are also pretty stupid and myopic and will be similarly judged by standards 100 and 150 years in the future. Or, as I.F. Stone said, "Each generation sets its own blinkers then claims its vision is unimpeded." Just one error of a know-it-all is that that he claims to know it all.

Expecting, or even wanting, others to be perfect in all ways is a sign of intellectual and emotional immaturity-- and almost assuredly hypocrisy. The vocally morally sanctimonious are nearly always applying standards to others that they aren't applying to themselves. In fact, being sanctimonious and expecting others (but not oneself) to be perfect are psychological conditions if not fronts. Forget others' faults and go see a therapist.

Duly note that many historical figures retain their interest, and collectibility, because they are complex, dichotomous figures: Ty Cobb, Patton, Nixon, Johnny Cash, William T. Sherman, Billy Holiday. Joe Jackson material wouldn't be as valuable as it is today if he weren't associated with the World Series scandal. Al Capone, Jesse James and Bonnie & Clyde are collected and hold interest entirely because they were outlaws.

I've long found it interesting that qualities that make living people social lepers make them appealing as long dead historical figures. I mean, when you read about them, you realize that some of the Western outlaws and Prohibition-era were essentially serial killers.

+1,000,000. We always fancy ourselves as advanced and on the "right side of history." Then generations pass! We really are an arrogant people!

[GaryPassamonte]

+ 1,000,001

[Klrdds]

Cobb is as very complex an individual in death as he was in life perhaps even more so in death . I will only add this ...as much as he's been vilified since his death as a racist and violent person let us not forget everything he did for his hometown of Royston ,GA which was during his life and even now is nothing but a spit in the road , a dot on a map . Check what he did for that town in his post baseball life and after his death by bequests in his will and you will find a town that is very indebted to him and values him for the benefactor he was to all people in that area. He also set up scholarships for kids also .
Cobb was a very violent product of the times and his family life - an exception to the norm of the times, but he tried to make up for it somehow during his final years .

[George]

People who think Ty Cobb was a racist should read "Ty Cobb: A Terrible Beauty," by Charles Leerhsen. This long overdue book tells the true story of the hatchet job perpetrated on Cobb by his earlier "biographer," Al Stump.

[sphere and ash]

I haven’t read the recent revisionist biography of Cobb, but I will. I’ve always suspected there was a story waiting to be revealed about this man, Alexander George Washington Rivers, who served as Cobb’s assistant for 18 years and who named his son Ty Cobb Rivers. This photo was used in 1927.