Kudos to LOTG - discovered counterfeit #311 1952 Mantle PSA 1 in latest auction

[drcy]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Could someone post a list of the auction houses that have never made a mistake before so that I can only bid with them?

There is one, but they only allow bidders who have never made a mistake.

[iowadoc77]

So just how many apologies would make this ok to those that think this is akin to a felony?
Did they make a mistake? Yep. Sure did.
Did they own it? Yep. Sure did.
Why the continued onslaughts? Really? I can’t understand it.
The dead horse is very obviously already dead, but apparently it is necessary to continue to beat it.
Well done dead horse beaters!

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by drcy

There is one, but they only allow bidders who have never made a mistake.

Haha. Just about right!

[mordecaibrown]

I do not post too often, but read a good amount on this site to learn as much as possible about the hobby.

First, I have never met or know Al; however, I have won some small items in the love of game auctions and had no issues with anything in the process. I was surprised to see Jeff's post, which I read as sarcasm, concerning losing Jesse as a customer. While I have never worked in an auction house, logic would lead one to believe that every bidder and bid is equally important; without under bidders, the final bid does not reach its amount.

As for the 1952 Mantle, I do not collect this card or set, but because of the popularity of the card, I, like most collectors, have seen it a great deal lately and this does appear to be a bad fake! Now, my opinion may be biased at this point because I know it is faked, but it does appear pretty bad when I compare it to real Mantles.

Finally, the point of my post. There was, at least one other bad fake offered for sale in the last LOTG auction. Lot# 192 - 1933 All Star Game program was a bad fake and had known indications of being a fake (item is still in the catalog, but was removed from the website so I cannot provide a link). When I saw the item on the website, I immediately contacted Al and explained to him that the item needed his attention because I believed it was a fake. To Al's credit, he looked into it, removed the item prior to any bids being placed. Al emailed me back and explained that a few other individuals had noticed it was a fake and contacted him - problem resolved. I guess the immediate action by Al should be applauded; however, that means numerous individuals noticed it was a fake, but no one at LOTG did.

I absolutely do not think Al or anyone at LOTG had any ill intent with the Mantle or the 1933 All Star program; however, I also don't think these items should be making it into an auction house catalog. Mistakes do happen. No one is perfect. But there were more than one bad item in this auction. While all bidders should always do their own due diligence, I think many assume that when bidding in an auction house and paying 20+% in fees, that the auction house has weeded out the obvious fakes.

So, I just didn't think it was right that Jesse (I also don't know Jesse) was getting ridiculed for being upset with the Mantle and wanted to point out it was not a lone incident in this auction. Not sure that will change anyone's mind or not, but might as well get all the facts out there.

From what I have gathered from this thread, it should be labeled kudos to Jobu! Without him reaching out to Al and suggesting he take a closer look at that card, Micah would have a $5000 piece of trash sitting on his desk and be none the wiser.

No one notices when you pay attention to details, but they certainly notice when you don't...

@ndy k3nn3dy

[frankbmd]

I second the motion of “Kudos to Jobu”.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by mordecaibrown

From what I have gathered from this thread, it should be labeled kudos to Jobu! Without him reaching out to Al and suggesting he take a closer look at that card, Micah would have a $5000 piece of trash sitting on his desk and be none the wiser.

most accurate thought posted in this entire thread. excellent post that said a lot of things I have been thinking. Thank you!!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by mordecaibrown

I do not post too often, but read a good amount on this site to learn as much as possible about the hobby.

First, I have never met or know Al; however, I have won some small items in the love of game auctions and had no issues with anything in the process. I was surprised to see Jeff's post, which I read as sarcasm, concerning losing Jesse as a customer. While I have never worked in an auction house, logic would lead one to believe that every bidder and bid is equally important; without under bidders, the final bid does not reach its amount.

As for the 1952 Mantle, I do not collect this card or set, but because of the popularity of the card, I, like most collectors, have seen it a great deal lately and this does appear to be a bad fake! Now, my opinion may be biased at this point because I know it is faked, but it does appear pretty bad when I compare it to real Mantles.

Finally, the point of my post. There was, at least one other bad fake offered for sale in the last LOTG auction. Lot# 192 - 1933 All Star Game program was a bad fake and had known indications of being a fake (item is still in the catalog, but was removed from the website so I cannot provide a link). When I saw the item on the website, I immediately contacted Al and explained to him that the item needed his attention because I believed it was a fake. To Al's credit, he looked into it, removed the item prior to any bids being placed. Al emailed me back and explained that a few other individuals had noticed it was a fake and contacted him - problem resolved. I guess the immediate action by Al should be applauded; however, that means numerous individuals noticed it was a fake, but no one at LOTG did.

I absolutely do not think Al or anyone at LOTG had any ill intent with the Mantle or the 1933 All Star program; however, I also don't think these items should be making it into an auction house catalog. Mistakes do happen. No one is perfect. But there were more than one bad item in this auction. While all bidders should always do their own due diligence, I think many assume that when bidding in an auction house and paying 20+% in fees, that the auction house has weeded out the obvious fakes.

So, I just didn't think it was right that Jesse (I also don't know Jesse) was getting ridiculed for being upset with the Mantle and wanted to point out it was not a lone incident in this auction. Not sure that will change anyone's mind or not, but might as well get all the facts out there.

From what I have gathered from this thread, it should be labeled kudos to Jobu! Without him reaching out to Al and suggesting he take a closer look at that card, Micah would have a $5000 piece of trash sitting on his desk and be none the wiser.

No one notices when you pay attention to details, but they certainly notice when you don't...

@ndy k3nn3dy

There are also other issues...some under bidders may of had more money freed up to bid on other consignor cards but were tied into the fake mantle , thus those other consignors lose out of getting max value on their items from those underbidders.... The point is the deal wasnt in a bubble... Jesse seemed concerned on how easily the card made its way to a reputable auction that took the time to write up on the card..

i also agree with you that someone that never wins an auction is still very much a customer as those legit underbids are very important..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i also agree with you that someone that never wins an auction is still very much a customer as those legit underbids are very important..

Thanks Jake I feel better about myself now.

[MW1]

Something to consider: How many major companies, even when informed of fake or counterfeit items in their auctions and presented with strong evidence, refuse to remove said questionable lots?

I can think of several recent examples. And historically? Many more.

[steve B]

Too soon?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by MW1

Something to consider: How many major companies, even when informed of fake or counterfeit items in their auctions and presented with strong evidence, refuse to remove said questionable lots?

I can think of several recent examples. And historically? Many more.

What examples do you speak of recently...(in 2017-2018)