Hal Newhouser

[Peter_Spaeth]

Very odd career. Well over half his wins came during just five seasons, and he won only 22 games from age 30 on. And like Koufax, he had a number of mediocre to average years before his great streak. It's hard to attribute his success to WW II because he wasn't so great in 42 or 43 and he was nearly as good in 46 as he had been in 44 and 45.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Very odd career. Well over half his wins came during just five seasons, and he won only 22 games from age 30 on. And like Koufax, he had a number of mediocre to average years before his great streak. It's hard to attribute his success to WW II because he wasn't so great in 42 or 43 and he was nearly as good in 46 as he had been in 44 and 45.

..his autographed 1946 Sports Exchange hand-cut card. Not a lot of his cards out there indeed.

..

[theshleps]

any idea why no bowman?

[G1911]

I wish he'd been in more of the early 50's sets, but his 1953 Topps is one of the most gorgeous cards of the decade

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by theshleps

any idea why no bowman?

Here is the 1949 LEAF card of Newhouser. It was issued in LEAF's 2nd Series and is an extremely tough card to find.


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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Very odd career. Well over half his wins came during just five seasons, and he won only 22 games from age 30 on. And like Koufax, he had a number of mediocre to average years before his great streak. It's hard to attribute his success to WW II because he wasn't so great in 42 or 43 and he was nearly as good in 46 as he had been in 44 and 45.

Peter

I think Hal Newhouser has the record for the most WINS during the decade of the 1940's....170. It's my understanding that this achievement influenced his induction into the HOF.
Plus another factor was Charlie Gehringer, who was Chairman of the HOF Veterans Committee in 1992, and a former Detroit teammate of Newhouser.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

BOWMAN most likely did not get the Rights to portray Newhouser. LEAF and TOPPS did.


1953 TOPPS Hi # ...... and, limited issue 1973 TOPPS test set card.









TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Here is the 1949 LEAF card of Newhouser. It was issued in LEAF's 2nd Series and is an extremely tough card to find.


.







Peter

I think Hal Newhouser has the record for the most WINS during the decade of the 1940's....170. It's my understanding that this achievement influenced his induction into the HOF.
Plus another factor was Charlie Gehringer, who was Chairman of the HOF Veterans Committee in 1992, and a former Detroit teammate of Newhouser.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Ted yeah I think he got in under the Dizzy Dean/Sandy Koufax exception that where you only have 5 or so great years but they are REALLY great years, they'll overlook insufficient career numbers. It's strange how he suddenly became great and just as suddenly went back to being average.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ted yeah I think he got in under the Dizzy Dean/Sandy Koufax exception that where you only have 5 or so great years but they are REALLY great years, they'll overlook insufficient career numbers. It's strange how he suddenly became great and just as suddenly went back to being average.

Peter

Don't discount the influence of Gehringer as the Chairman of the HOF Veterans Committee in getting Newhouser in the HOF.

Gehringer was quoted as saying that he would never allow Rizzuto to be inducted in the HOF. When Charlie was no longer on this HOF Committee and Ted Williams was on this
Committee, Rizzuto got in.

I was not surprised about Rizzuto being in the HOF, since in a conversation with Ted Williams (in Cooperstown in the 1980's), Ted personally told me how he felt about Rizzuto.
Ted said.... " If The Scooter was with the Red Sox all those years, the Red Sox would have been the Champions and not the Yankees ". He thought very highly of how effective
Rizzuto was as a lead-off batter, a base stealer, and a Shortstop.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Peter_Spaeth]

Odd thing for Ted to say because Boston had a fine ballplayer and regular .300 hitter, Johnny Pesky, at SS through the early 50s and Ted was good friends with Pesky I believe.

[trdcrdkid]

Considering that his peak came during years when there were few or no nationally distributed baseball card sets, the number of contemporary cards of Newhouser is about what you would expect (1949 Leaf, 1953 Topps, 1955 Topps, plus the 1947 Sports Exchange photo that Mike Garcia posted, the tiny little 1950 R423, and some Exhibits). The lack of Bowmans is presumably because they didn't have the rights, as Ted Z. said.

Newhouser actually pitched pretty well in 1942 and 1943, making the All-Star game both years, but the Tigers gave him very little run support, so his W-L record suffered. And this has nothing to do with his cards, but Newhouser was one of the meanest, most disliked players in baseball during his career, with a legendary temper.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

Considering that his peak came during years when there were few or no nationally distributed baseball card sets, the number of contemporary cards of Newhouser is about what you would expect (1949 Leaf, 1953 Topps, 1955 Topps, plus the 1947 Sports Exchange photo that Mike Garcia posted, the tiny little 1950 R423, and some Exhibits). The lack of Bowmans is presumably because they didn't have the rights, as Ted Z. said.

Newhouser actually pitched pretty well in 1942 and 1943, making the All-Star game both years, but the Tigers gave him very little run support, so his W-L record suffered. And this has nothing to do with his cards, but Newhouser was one of the meanest, most disliked players in baseball during his career, with a legendary temper.

Kind of begs the question why Bowman didn't have the rights. Look at all the players who were in most or many of the early Bowman issues, not all of whom by any means were stars at their peak. Look at all the sets he wasn't in: 48-55 Bowman (8) and 52 and 54 Topps. So he was in 3 sets, and not in 10. Not to mention none of the 54 regionals. To me, anyhow, that doesn't sound like about what one would expect for a HOFer.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ted yeah I think he got in under the Dizzy Dean/Sandy Koufax exception that where you only have 5 or so great years but they are REALLY great years, they'll overlook insufficient career numbers. It's strange how he suddenly became great and just as suddenly went back to being average.

I don't think that is fair. Newhouser pitched for 17 years (14 if you don't count 3 where he barely pitched). He won 207 games, had a 3.06 ERA and a 130 ERA+. Those are pretty solid numbers. He won 2 MVPs and finished 2nd. He was an All Star 6 years in a row (would have been 7 if there was a 1945 game).

63.3 WAR 52.8 WAR 7 58.0 JAWS. That is just ahead of Juan Marichal, Roy Halladay, Clayton Kershaw (Is he a HOFer if he retired at the end of this year?), Don Drysdale, Jim Bunning, John Smoltz, Don Sutton, Early Wynn and Whitey Ford. These are the non Hofers with a higher JAWS: Roger Clemens (steroids), Curt Schilling (most think he will get in), Mike Mussina (most think he will get in) and 3 19th century guys who only pitched 10 or 11 years (Jim McCormick, Tommy Bond and Charlie Buffington). He's tied with Wes Ferrell who many think should have been in but the Veteran's Committee may have confused him with his brother. Koufax and Dean had their careers cut short by injury, Newhouser didn't. You would want to have a pretty small Hall of Fame if you think his career numbers are insufficient.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I don't think that is fair. Newhouser pitched for 17 years (14 if you don't count 3 where he barely pitched). He won 207 games, had a 3.06 ERA and a 130 ERA+. Those are pretty solid numbers. He won 2 MVPs and finished 2nd. He was an All Star 6 years in a row (would have been 7 if there was a 1945 game).

63.3 WAR 52.8 WAR 7 58.0 JAWS. That is just ahead of Juan Marichal, Roy Halladay, Clayton Kershaw (Is he a HOFer if he retired at the end of this year?), Don Drysdale, Jim Bunning, John Smoltz, Don Sutton, Early Wynn and Whitey Ford. These are the non Hofers with a higher JAWS: Roger Clemens (steroids), Curt Schilling (most think he will get in), Mike Mussina (most think he will get in) and 3 19th century guys who only pitched 10 or 11 years (Jim McCormick, Tommy Bond and Charlie Buffington). He's tied with Wes Ferrell who many think should have been in but the Veteran's Committee may have confused him with his brother. Koufax and Dean had their careers cut short by injury, Newhouser didn't. You would want to have a pretty small Hall of Fame if you think his career numbers are insufficient.

And a hugely disproportionate part of that comes from a few off the charts years. Outside of those years, he was at best an average pitcher. I'm not saying kick him out, I'm just saying he's in the Koufax and Dean wing.