Hey, pennant guys

[Domer05]

One more thing: I also noted on your '62 photo pennant that those same initials "WC" appear in the upper left corner of the pennant. So, that's now two different Trench pennants from that year with these initials. Can't be the artist's initials, as we last suspected.

Unless he/she is also a photographer.

[ooo-ribay]

I just noticed the W.C., too. I’ll see if any of my fellow SF collectors, who don’t post here, can shed any light...

[jimm]

[jimm]

[perezfan]

OK... Here's one that I find to be a head-scratcher. Perhaps Kyle and the other pennant guys will find it to be a mystery as well.

Check out this green Brooklyn Pennant with the Bum inside of Ebbets Field. Classic Trench design... right?

Well, not so fast!

Check out the second photo. We have the classic blue felt Trench "Bum in Ebbets Field" Pennant (complete with Trench Logo). But also note the infamous "Creepy Uncle" Bums Pennant from Ad Flag. The font stating "Da Bums" (right above his head) is identical to that on the green Trench Pennant.

So is it possible that Trench and Ad Flag shared some of the design work, or that some pennant artists of the era worked for both companies? Perhaps someone here has a better explanation.

[ooo-ribay]

The “creepy Uncle” is marked as Ad Flag?

My gut tells me artwork may have been stolen, more than shared.

Kyle will figure it out.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The “creepy Uncle” is marked as Ad Flag?

My gut tells me artwork may have been stolen, more than shared.

Kyle will figure it out.

Yep... Creepy Uncle is an Ad Flag creation

[Domer05]

Does the back of the photo say anything about the manufacturer and/or concessionaire, e.g., "Made by Trench, Buffalo, NY for Sportservice"?

Trench seems to have made two types of photos for their photo pennants. Some placed 100% of the text on the reverse side, where they named everyone in the photo, the manufacturer, and if applicable: the concessionaire. I've seen others, however, that look like Trench's work; but the team personnel info is buried in the footer across the bottom of the photo's front side. In this variation, they omitted all manufacturing and/or concessionaire info and the reverse of the photo was left blank.

This '68 Detroit Tigers pennant (below) exemplifies this latter style. I can't say with 100% certainty this one came from Trench, but it sure looks like their earlier work....

So, your '62 photo pennant may fall into this other variety Trench made--a style that grew more common by the late 1960s and 70s because the viewer could read the caption without having to flip the pennant over--which would be difficult, if it were already tacked to a wall.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

One more thing: I also noted on your '62 photo pennant that those same initials "WC" appear in the upper left corner of the pennant. So, that's now two different Trench pennants from that year with these initials. Can't be the artist's initials, as we last suspected.

Unless he/she is also a photographer.

One of my Giants collector frenemies thinks it stands for WinCraft. It could be. I was surprised to learn from their website that WinCraft has been around since 1961. And they do spell it with an upper case W and C.

[Domer05]

It could be WinCraft. And you are correct that WinCraft's origins date back to 1961; however, I find it unlikely based upon my preliminary research into them that they were set-up to manufacture MLB pennants, and for an out of market team no less, within a year of opening.

I do plan to cover WinCraft and a related pennant maker from the same Minnesota town, ASCO, in a future post. But, since you bring WinCraft up, I found an article describing their beginnings as being rather humble. It began as a three person operation doing business above a bar in Winona, MN. What's more, they principally made pom poms and celluloid buttons for local high schools. No mention of pennants or other felt novelties.

Given these modest beginnings, I think it unlikely they made your pennant. As far as I know, WinCraft didn't start making felt pennants until the late 1970s after they merged with ASCO, another Winona-based company that had been making pennants since the late 1940s.

Again, my research is not complete so I could be wrong on all this. Still, I can offer no better answer as to what "WC" might have stood for. I'm curious if other pennants from the early 1960s bore that same mark, or it was limited to just Giant pennants....

And as to ADFLAG, you are correct as to the maker of those three Giants pennants you displayed. It looks like ADFLAG secreted their name in their original artwork throughout the 1950s, but stopped doing so by the mid-1960s. The "Chavez Ravine" stadium pennants below are very similar to your Candlestick one and were made around the same time by ADFLAG as their answer to Trench's Dodger Stadium pennants. One's even dated 1965. Like your Candlestick pennant, neither has a maker's mark. So, for some reason they just discarded this practice by mid-decade. Shortly thereafter it looks like they may have gotten out of the pennant business to focus on more profitable product lines.

[Fballguy]

Perhaps WC is a regional company located somewhere in No.Cal?

[bocca001]

Rob's version of this 1962 Giants team photo pennant has the WC. Mine does not. I actually have two of these pennants, and neither has the WC. It is hard to imagine that this pennant had a long shelf life. Long enough to have a variation or a knock off. Maybe WC was a specific vendor?

[Domer05]

This Cal pennant sure looks to me to be a Trench-made pennant. It's hard to put in words, but if you look at enough of their stadium pennants, they start to look the same.

One sign, for instance, is the way the artist writes the name of the stadium beside the drawing. In the 1950s, he/she used a combination of upper and lower case letters. Also, they were hand written, which means if you look at enough of these, you start to recognize the handwriting.

Below you'll see a side-by-side comparison of what I'm talking about. Note that the word "Stadium" sure looks similar, but for the "S". That difference notwithstanding, I still think the same artist drew these two renderings, and Trench made both pennants.

Which is consistent with our previous beliefs, namely that Rob's '62 photo pennant and '62 batter on baseball near bridge pennants--both of which bore this "WC" mark--were made by Trench.

It's noteworthy that the University California is located in Berkeley, just across the bay from San Francisco. This fact, and the observation that only some of these pennants bore the "WC" mark while others didn't, suggests that "WC" signifies either the name of the concessionaire that ran both Candlestick and Memorial Stadium, or else a bay area retailer that did a lot of business with Trench, like a novelty or sporting goods store that would sell both Giants and Bears pennants.

I think we may be close to solving this mystery....

[jimm]

Originally Posted by Domer05

It's noteworthy that the University California is located in Berkeley, just across the bay from San Francisco. This fact, and the observation that only some of these pennants bore the "WC" mark while others didn't, suggests that "WC" signifies either the name of the concessionaire that ran both Candlestick and Memorial Stadium, or else a bay area retailer that did a lot of business with Trench, like a novelty or sporting goods store that would sell both Giants and Bears pennants.

My Cal pennant lacks this mark, in fact my collection is devoid of any marks I believe, so many variations

[ooo-ribay]

Have we discussed this before? Marc’s photo pennant used to be mine.

[bocca001]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Have we discussed this before? Marc’s photo pennant used to be mine.

Rob- That pennant has a "unique" smell among my pennants. Was it always that way? Did you happen to pee on it before you sold it?

I'm attaching a pic of my other copy. The rare brown front with black back version. I bought this one when I figured that I'd have to wait forever to get a better one (and then, of course, the better looking one showed up soon thereafter... the brown one does smell better though).