Clemente: Inner circle of the elite, or on his way?

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I don’t really disagree that Clemente and Frank Robinson are fairly similar in value to their team. I personally would have much rather had Robinson on my team but my point was Clemente was a completely different type of player than Mays and Aaron, Robinson was more similar to them just without the overall statistics to measure up.

I like Clemente a lot but he was not Mays or Aaron and very few people in their time thought he was in that conversation. He was a great person and worthy of his fame, but like some other people in other walks of like the fact that he was taken before his time makes him feel more legendary than he perhaps was.

I think the reason he may have been mentioned in the same breath was his being the "third" outfielder of the 1960's in the National League. When you look at all star game starters (a good "old school" metric to see where people ranked "back in the day") during the 1960's, Mays started eight times, Aaron seven, and Clemente five. The only other NL outfielder with multiple appearances as a starter was Tommy Davis with two.

So I think that is the reason he would be mentioned with those two.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

I think the reason he may have been mentioned in the same breath was his being the "third" outfielder of the 1960's in the National League. When you look at all star game starters (a good "old school" metric to see where people ranked "back in the day") during the 1960's, Mays started eight times, Aaron seven, and Clemente five. The only other NL outfielder with multiple appearances as a starter was Tommy Davis with two.

So I think that is the reason he would be mentioned with those two.

In that context I can see the argument.

[Peter_Spaeth]

On Base Percentage

Frank Robinson – .389 images
Roberto Clemente – .359

Slugging Percentage

Frank Robinson – .537 images
Roberto Clemente – .475

OPS (On-Base + Slugging Percentage)

Frank Robinson – .926 images
Roberto Clemente – .834

Home Runs

Frank Robinson – 586 images
Roberto Clemente – 240

RBIs

Frank Robinson – 1,812 images
Roberto Clemente – 1,305

[btcarfagno]

Frank Robinson is vastly underappreciated. That said, his WAR per game and WAR per inning is lower than Clemente.

Personally I would take Robinson because I just value offense over defense that much.

[tedzan]

TRIVIA QUIZ

What has Frank Robinson achieved that no other major star has in the post-WWII era ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by tedzan

trivia quiz

what has frank robinson achieved that no other major star has in the post-wwii era ?


ted z

t206 reference
.

mvp - al/nl ?!?

[Mark70Z]

I believe F. Robby is under appreciated, undervalued and doesn’t get the credit he likely deserves is because of his personality sometimes hits people the wrong way. Now I’m an O’s fan and Frank is one of my favorite players and each time I met him he was extremely nice to me, but I heard some horror stories from others.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

TRIVIA QUIZ

What has Frank Robinson achieved that no other major star has in the post-WWII era ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Mark

Your answer is a good one, but it's not quite the one I'm looking for.

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Mark

Your answer is a good one, but it's not quite the one I'm looking for.

Last guess... How about Frank won the Triple Crown, the Most Valuable Player trophy and a World Series ring in his first year?!?

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by tedzan

TRIVIA QUIZ

What has Frank Robinson achieved that no other major star has in the post-WWII era ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

First African American manager in both leagues?

[Paul S]

double post

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

TRIVIA QUIZ

What has Frank Robinson achieved that no other major star has in the post-WWII era ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Mark70Z

Your response in post #254 here serves as a hint to the answer to this Quiz.
.

[JollyElm]

Who is a person who has never been in my kitchen?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Mark70Z

Your response in post #254 here serves as a hint to the answer to this Quiz.
.

ROY MVP and WS MVP.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

TRIVIA QUIZ

What has Frank Robinson achieved that no other major star has in the post-WWII era ?


TED Z

I will continue this Trivia Quiz regarding Frank Robby till this evening....or, until some one has the answer I am looking for.


In the early 1970's, we would drive down to Bradenton (Florida) to visit my in-laws. My wife's Grandfather, Chris, had tickets to the Pirates' Spring training games at Bradenton. In 1972,
our seats were near the field, midway between 1st base and the Foul pole. When Roberto came out to Right field, he would first come over to the stands and converse with many of us.
He was such a really friendly guy. And, it was a pleasure to see him play at close range.... fielding his position and making some great throws to cut-off runners.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

OK, some of you were heading down the right track with your replies.....but, fell short of your destination.

The answer to this Frank Robby Quiz that I've been looking for is actually in the form of a question to you.

I admire Frank Robinson, in that he was able to switch Major Leagues and greatly succeed in both the National Lge. and then in
the American Lge. I cannot come up with any other major star in BB in the post-WWII era that accomplished this feat as he did.

Can you name another guy (total of 15 - 20 year career), who switched Leagues and succeeded equally well in both of them ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[nolemmings]

I always believed Frank Robinson doesn't get enough credit, but that may be because of some early memories being burned into me for life.

I recall 1966 as a very young boy, and what he did to the American League that year seemed unearthly. I was starting to get into my hometown Twins, and my favorite player on that team, Tony Oliva, who had just won the AL batting crown his first two seasons. Frank Robinson beat him by 9 points, and I don't remember it being that close, although they were the only two (I think) to hit .300. The local slugger Killebrew finished second to Robby in HR-- ten behind. As it turned out, Robby not only won the triple crown, he led the league in runs scored by 23 and in slugging pct by 99 points! He then won World Series MVP by beating Drysdale twice and going 1 for 2 (triple) off of Koufax in the four-game sweep. Just truly seemed like he was in a league of his own.

He also was a very underrated baserunner and a smart player overall. I wonder if he lacked a bit of popularity because he split his career about evenly in each league at a time when each had its own devoted fans that didn't fully appreciate what he had done in the other circuit because they didn't follow it as closely. Anyway, he has always been one of my favorite players, although begrudgingly so when he beat my guys back in the day.

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I always believed Frank Robinson doesn't get enough credit. . ..

Totally agree.