Clemente: Inner circle of the elite, or on his way?

[jrawlsian]

Interesting thread. I can see this from three different perspectives.

As a collector, my main observation is that Clemente items command a premium from the so-called "deceased player" effect. No, he isn't going to sell for the same as Ruth and Cobb items, but there's still a healthy arbitrage to be had.

As a stats guy, I'd say 40th all-time in career WAR feels right - I could probably move him to the top 30 if certain normalizing adjustments were made.

As a baseball fan from Pittsburgh, I wouldn't rank him higher than Ruth, Cobb, etc., but I do own his jersey, wear it to each game and see that jersey's appearance on the rise. In Pirates history, he is clearly second after Honus, but benefits in "mindshare" from a recency effect. There is also a primacy effect - He wasn't the first Latin American MLB player, but he was the first Latin American player to be inducted into Cooperstown.

[ALR-bishop]

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Nice cards Al. This is my favorite Clemente. A real missing yellow error. There are some awesome Clemente cards in the Clemente thread in the post war section.

[the 'stache]

Oh, and since Kaline was brought up...

Career WAR:
Clemente 94.5
Kaline 92.8

Games played:
Clemente 2,433
Kaline 2,834 (+401)

Games played per WAR Point:
Clemente 25.7
Kaline 30.54

WAR/162 games played:
Clemente 6.3
Kaline 5.3

Al Kaline hit .297 for his career, with 399 home runs. He walked 1,277 times to Clemente's 621. Yet, Clemente was worth 1 win more per season (per BBA) than Al Kaline.

Perhaps Clemente's total game is being undervalued. He doesn't have the sexy doubles and home run totals, therefore, he's not elite.