Incredible eBay find that never materialized (newly discovered info on 6/26!!!)

[bigfanNY]

Well first time I stepped into a thread like this. So first I am not a perfect hobby member in fact this week I forgot about a package and mailed an item 5 days after I said I would.
BUT I delt with showpiece sports last year and Joe is a GOOD GUY.
I am sorry An EBAY seller screwed you and I would bet Joe is sorry he screwed you but he did nothing wrong here. 100% seller fault. Really what would you want Joe to do sell you the card for less than he paid for it?
You cannot be sure he did anything wrong And yet you say you are almost 100% certin he did. That is not cool
Is it to much to ask you give him a break? For you and me this is a hobby but for someone who pays for multiple tables at national and has 6k listings this might be an important business and to jump up and down and say he is unethical and ask folks to "stop by his table and tell him so" .
I would not appreciate anyone stopping by my workplace disrupting my business would you?
You know who did you wrong for $15 you can sue him in a New Jersey small claims court. If you prevailed you might win some damages. But the scorched earth policy of anyone connected to this must pay and pay. Is neither fair nor just.
My real world experiance with Joe tells me that the opinion in your head is wrong about him.
Jonathan Sterling

[sterlingfox]

Simply going by facts, Joe is currently in possession of the card and refuses to provide any info that could prove his innocence in this.

Based on what, exactly, should I be cutting him a break?

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Well first time I stepped into a thread like this. So first I am not a perfect hobby member in fact this week I forgot about a package and mailed an item 5 days after I said I would.
BUT I delt with showpiece sports last year and Joe is a GOOD GUY.
I am sorry An EBAY seller screwed you and I would bet Joe is sorry he screwed you but he did nothing wrong here. 100% seller fault. Really what would you want Joe to do sell you the card for less than he paid for it?
You cannot be sure he did anything wrong And yet you say you are almost 100% certin he did. That is not cool
Is it to much to ask you give him a break? For you and me this is a hobby but for someone who pays for multiple tables at national and has 6k listings this might be an important business and to jump up and down and say he is unethical and ask folks to "stop by his table and tell him so" .
I would not appreciate anyone stopping by my workplace disrupting my business would you?
You know who did you wrong for $15 you can sue him in a New Jersey small claims court. If you prevailed you might win some damages. But the scorched earth policy of anyone connected to this must pay and pay. Is neither fair nor just.
My real world experiance with Joe tells me that the opinion in your head is wrong about him.
Jonathan Sterling

[bigfanNY]

Well first off he never promised to sell you the card for $1200.00. Second he told you he took card in on trade.Third he is right not giving you name of collector who traded it. IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. What make you think anyone owes it to you to prove their innocence. I thought basic justice meant Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
You know who did you wrong do the work to fix it or get over it. Trashing someone who you feel is withholding evidence from you is wrong. JUST WRONG. Put yourself in Joe's shoes would you act differantly? I would not,who I trade or sell cards to and for how much is none of yours or anybody's business. Unless card has been reported stolen and this card has not.

[sterlingfox]

So all the evidence so far points to Joe as the buyer of the card, and I should just blindly trust his word that he's innocent?

The original seller is NOT the only person who wronged me here.

If Joe's story has any merit at all, he needs to provide info on who traded him the card. IT IS MY BUSINESS if he's the only person who can provide that info.

If I were in Joe's shoes, not only would I do everything I could to help out, including providing info on the client, I'd also never do business again with that client. Joe obviously values his client over his ethics. And that's going on a HUGE assumption that his story is even true.

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Well first off he never promised to sell you the card for $1200.00. Second he told you he took card in on trade.Third he is right not giving you name of collector who traded it. IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. What make you think anyone owes it to you to prove their innocence. I thought basic justice meant Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
You know who did you wrong do the work to fix it or get over it. Trashing someone who you feel is withholding evidence from you is wrong. JUST WRONG. Put yourself in Joe's shoes would you act differantly? I would not,who I trade or sell cards to and for how much is none of yours or anybody's business. Unless card has been reported stolen and this card has not.

[BLongley]

Wait a second....have you read the post? The OP bought the card, paid for it, and then received shipping confirmation. Then about 15 minutes later received an email from the seller maxcollector69 thaT THE CARD AND CASE WAS DAMAGED BY HIS KIDS AND HE WAS CANCELING THE DEAL.... now here we are a few weeks later and suddenly our seller Joe, has THE EXACT CARD IN THE EXACT CASE WITH ZERO DAMAGE for sale on eBay.... he doesn't have to say how he acquired it but it's maxcollector69s card in the same case, ... I sent him a question asking him about the claimed damage to the card and case from the original seller and he did not respond at all.... all of his actions seem to be ones of someone with a guilty conscience (I would bet anyone that Joe told maxcollector69 he sold too cheap and he would pay him more, then did so off eBay, but was so stupid he listed it on eBay for all of us to see).... you say he's a good guy, so go ahead buy from him.... but I will never have interest in anything he sells.... he certainly can come on here and tell his side of the story, and I told him in my note to him about this Net54 post, but he is staying quiet...

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Well first off he never promised to sell you the card for $1200.00. Second he told you he took card in on trade.Third he is right not giving you name of collector who traded it. IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. What make you think anyone owes it to you to prove their innocence. I thought basic justice meant Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
You know who did you wrong do the work to fix it or get over it. Trashing someone who you feel is withholding evidence from you is wrong. JUST WRONG. Put yourself in Joe's shoes would you act differantly? I would not,who I trade or sell cards to and for how much is none of yours or anybody's business. Unless card has been reported stolen and this card has not.

[jfkheat]

I wouldn't tell anyone where I got the card from either for privacy reasons. Last year I sold a card to a member here. When he received the package the bubble mailer had been sliced open and the card was gone. A couple months ago the card showed as part of a set up at an auction house that lists their auctions here. I called the auction house asking for the same type of information that you are asking for. I was told that for privacy reasons they couldn't give me any info.
James

[Republicaninmass]

You can bet if any of my stolen cards show up, I'll try my damndest to find where they came from. Not that I'll have any luck

[timn1]

Sure, Maybe Joe is totally innocent, and piglets could also fly out of my behind. He didn’t even bother to sell it in a different venue. Pretty shameless if you ask me.

Originally Posted by BLongley

Wait a second....have you read the post? The OP bought the card, paid for it, and then received shipping confirmation. Then about 15 minutes later received an email from the seller maxcollector69 thaT THE CARD AND CASE WAS DAMAGED BY HIS KIDS AND HE WAS CANCELING THE DEAL.... now here we are a few weeks later and suddenly our seller Joe, has THE EXACT CARD IN THE EXACT CASE WITH ZERO DAMAGE for sale on eBay.... he doesn't have to say how he acquired it but it's maxcollector69s card in the same case, ... I sent him a question asking him about the claimed damage to the card and case from the original seller and he did not respond at all.... all of his actions seem to be ones of someone with a guilty conscience (I would bet anyone that Joe told maxcollector69 he sold too cheap and he would pay him more, then did so off eBay, but was so stupid he listed it on eBay for all of us to see).... you say he's a good guy, so go ahead buy from him.... but I will never have interest in anything he sells.... he certainly can come on here and tell his side of the story, and I told him in my note to him about this Net54 post, but he is staying quiet...

[timn1]

Sure he did, that’s what posting something on eBay is, an implied promise to sell something for a certain price (either the BIN price or the auction hammer price).
In this case the seller set the price himself and then reneged on the promise. Pretty simple stuff, I would say. Hard to spin it away.

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Well first off he never promised to sell you the card for $1200.00..

[bigfanNY]

Brian You and the OP do not have have not a single shread of evidence that Joe bought the card from maxcollector69. Joe responded to the OP and answered his question on how he acquired the card. The card was not stolen so it would be wrong for him to tell you or anyone the name of who traded him the card. Again it is none of your business.
Don't you get that it is wrong to say things like I would bet anyone he is "guilty" and "stop by his booth at the national" without any proof that he did anything unethical. Who appointed you guys judge jury and executioner?
I personally would not contact an Ebay seller and offer him more for an item after it already sold. But in this case the only person who acted in a way that harmed the OP is MAXCOLLECTOR69. He made the decision to not ship the card and to lie about why. He made the decision to sell the card to someone else. Joe took the card in on trade NOTHING UNETHICAL OR ILLEGAL about that. If it was then I have been a criminal since I was 8 years old and started trading baseball cards.

As for Tim yes a promise is a promise and stupid is as stupid does. Next time please read the post and if you don't understand it ..then best not to respond to it.

I would suggest that you 3 owe an apology to Joe but I know self righteous guys like you rarely have the guts to admit you were wrong. And that a complete lack of evidence only makes the conspiracy more real. But standing up for the wrongly accused (Those accused despite any evidence to indicate they did anything wrong) is always the right thing to do. If Joe did anything at all wrong I think it will come out but you don't convict people and wait for the evidence to show up.
Jonathan Sterling

[timn1]

Yes, I did misread your post, although why you bothered to say that Joe did not promise to sell the OP the card for $1200 is a mystery since no one ever claimed he did. But The original eBay seller did make that promise, and there is good reason to suspect that Joe interfered with that transaction. If he didn’t, then he can come on this board and explain his side of things. That would go much further in his defense than your flailing about is doing.

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Brian You and the OP do not have have not a single shread of evidence that Joe bought the card from maxcollector69. Joe responded to the OP and answered his question on how he acquired the card. The card was not stolen so it would be wrong for him to tell you or anyone the name of who traded him the card. Again it is none of your business.
Don't you get that it is wrong to say things like I would bet anyone he is "guilty" and "stop by his booth at the national" without any proof that he did anything unethical. Who appointed you guys judge jury and executioner?
I personally would not contact an Ebay seller and offer him more for an item after it already sold. But in this case the only person who acted in a way that harmed the OP is MAXCOLLECTOR69. He made the decision to not ship the card and to lie about why. He made the decision to sell the card to someone else. Joe took the card in on trade NOTHING UNETHICAL OR ILLEGAL about that. If it was then I have been a criminal since I was 8 years old and started trading baseball cards.

As for Tim yes a promise is a promise and stupid is as stupid does. Next time please read the post and if you don't understand it ..then best not to respond to it.

I would suggest that you 3 owe an apology to Joe but I know self righteous guys like you rarely have the guts to admit you were wrong. And that a complete lack of evidence only makes the conspiracy more real. But standing up for the wrongly accused (Those accused despite any evidence to indicate they did anything wrong) is always the right thing to do. If Joe did anything at all wrong I think it will come out but you don't convict people and wait for the evidence to show up.
Jonathan Sterling

[sterlingfox]

So what you're saying is that Joe, or whoever the original buyer of the card is who offered more to maxcollector69, did nothing wrong? You even said yourself that's something you wouldn't do! Are you flipping serious!?!?

And Joe being the only other known owner of the card is plenty enough evidence to suspect him of being the buyer.

Where's the proof that Joe took the card in on trade? That's right. There's none!

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Brian You and the OP do not have have not a single shread of evidence that Joe bought the card from maxcollector69. Joe responded to the OP and answered his question on how he acquired the card. The card was not stolen so it would be wrong for him to tell you or anyone the name of who traded him the card. Again it is none of your business.
Don't you get that it is wrong to say things like I would bet anyone he is "guilty" and "stop by his booth at the national" without any proof that he did anything unethical. Who appointed you guys judge jury and executioner?
I personally would not contact an Ebay seller and offer him more for an item after it already sold. But in this case the only person who acted in a way that harmed the OP is MAXCOLLECTOR69. He made the decision to not ship the card and to lie about why. He made the decision to sell the card to someone else. Joe took the card in on trade NOTHING UNETHICAL OR ILLEGAL about that. If it was then I have been a criminal since I was 8 years old and started trading baseball cards.

As for Tim yes a promise is a promise and stupid is as stupid does. Next time please read the post and if you don't understand it ..then best not to respond to it.

I would suggest that you 3 owe an apology to Joe but I know self righteous guys like you rarely have the guts to admit you were wrong. And that a complete lack of evidence only makes the conspiracy more real. But standing up for the wrongly accused (Those accused despite any evidence to indicate they did anything wrong) is always the right thing to do. If Joe did anything at all wrong I think it will come out but you don't convict people and wait for the evidence to show up.
Jonathan Sterling

[rdixon1208]

Originally Posted by sterlingfox

So what you're saying is that Joe, or whoever the original buyer of the card is who offered more to maxcollector69, did nothing wrong? You even said yourself that's something you wouldn't do! Are you flipping serious!?!?

And Joe being the only other known owner of the card is plenty enough evidence to suspect him of being the buyer.

Where's the proof that Joe took the card in on trade? That's right. There's none!

This is where I think you're wrong. I understanding you suspecting him of being the buyer, but you're actually accusing him of it and demanding that he provide proof when you don't actually have any hard data to support your claim. That card could have changed hands multiple times between maxcollector69 and the guy who has it for sale now.

Robert Dixon

[BLongley]

Without a doubt maxcollector69 is guilty for not following through on his transaction, and the reason he didn't we clearly know is a lie because the case isn't damaged. Now here we are and showpiecessports has the card in his inventory for sale.

Nothing unethical or illegal about trading for it, or unethical or illegal if he bought it, and nothing illegal if he interfered with Dmitrys transaction (although eBay would be less than thrilled for loosing transaction fees and having shenanigans taking place through their company's business, but we know it happens all the time).... if he did that though that would be unethical.

I have seen many a reputation destroyed over the internet. There are topics like this that come up all the time and when whoevers reputation or character is being questioned they come on to the board and tell their side of the story, and if they did nothing wrong then everyone moves on.

I am surprised Joe has been so quiet, after all anyone can google search his eBay name and this stuff now appears, if it was my name and integrity being questioned I would certainly come online and tell my side of the story.

I can appreciate you sticking up for your friend, but you don't know the facts...maxcollector69 does and Joe may certainly have info to share if he so chooses.

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Brian You and the OP do not have have not a single shread of evidence that Joe bought the card from maxcollector69. Joe responded to the OP and answered his question on how he acquired the card. The card was not stolen so it would be wrong for him to tell you or anyone the name of who traded him the card. Again it is none of your business.
Don't you get that it is wrong to say things like I would bet anyone he is "guilty" and "stop by his booth at the national" without any proof that he did anything unethical. Who appointed you guys judge jury and executioner?
I personally would not contact an Ebay seller and offer him more for an item after it already sold. But in this case the only person who acted in a way that harmed the OP is MAXCOLLECTOR69. He made the decision to not ship the card and to lie about why. He made the decision to sell the card to someone else. Joe took the card in on trade NOTHING UNETHICAL OR ILLEGAL about that. If it was then I have been a criminal since I was 8 years old and started trading baseball cards.

As for Tim yes a promise is a promise and stupid is as stupid does. Next time please read the post and if you don't understand it ..then best not to respond to it.

I would suggest that you 3 owe an apology to Joe but I know self righteous guys like you rarely have the guts to admit you were wrong. And that a complete lack of evidence only makes the conspiracy more real. But standing up for the wrongly accused (Those accused despite any evidence to indicate they did anything wrong) is always the right thing to do. If Joe did anything at all wrong I think it will come out but you don't convict people and wait for the evidence to show up.
Jonathan Sterling

[Republicaninmass]

Ebay clearly states that when you agree to purchase a card from a seller, it is a binding agreement. Are we to say that is unilateral, and the binding agreement doesnt bind the (original) seller in this case?

What about stolen property? The (second) seller wouldn't even be reimbursed, he'd have to go after who he purchased it from. The authorities would just take the card into evidence.

There are enough attorneys on the board that we can just write off (and laugh at) most of the other posters. Those which are simply conjecture and speculation what the law is, how it reads, or what can hold up in court.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by BLongley

Nothing unethical or illegal about trading for it, or unethical or illegal if he bought it, and nothing illegal if he interfered with Dmitrys transaction (although eBay would be less than thrilled for loosing transaction fees and having shenanigans taking place through their company's business, but we know it happens all the time).... if he did that though that would be unethical.

Nothing illegal if he interfered with it?

This is of course an amateur opinion as I'm not a lawyer, but....

Ebay states in a couple places in their user agreement that a sale is a contract between buyer and seller. They used to have language like that every time I listed stuff, but it's been a while so they might not have that reminder for sellers anymore.

And from Wikipedia

"Tortious interference, also known as intentional interference with contractual relations, in the common law of torts, occurs when one person intentionally damages someone else's contractual or business relationships with a third party causing economic harm.[1] For example, someone could use blackmail to induce a contractor into breaking a contract or they could obstruct someone's ability to honor a contract with a client by deliberately refusing to deliver necessary goods.[2]

So I'd say interfering with a completed sale on Ebay is illegal.
That's not to say that it might be hard to prove, or more expensive to sue over than the item.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Brian You and the OP do not have have not a single shread of evidence that Joe bought the card from maxcollector69. Joe responded to the OP and answered his question on how he acquired the card. The card was not stolen so it would be wrong for him to tell you or anyone the name of who traded him the card.

So if the card was 'stolen' then it would be ok for the new seller to give the info of who traded him the card. So now there are reasons that info should be disclosed.

Well the poster is basically claiming fraud because he was told the card/case was damaged which was the reason for the non sale and he is alleging there is nothing wrong with the card. So whether the card was 'stolen' 'fraud' some other bad deed, it would appear you really cant just say its none of his business to see how the new seller got the card...others can disagree but i dont think its so simple to say its none of his business