"1888" GOODWIN CHAMPIONS (N162) cards are actually an 1889 set

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

So you're telling me that the blurred, faded, matte OJ on the left was made exactly the same way as the albumen print on the right?

.

The OJ on the left looks like a very primitive salt print to me.

I can post an image where the N172 is much clearer than the N173, that is just selective analysis. The bottom line is that N173s were first generation, the N172s second generation. They are both, however, albumin prints and BTW N172s all have a glossy finish to start with. If you subject the card to enough wear and tear it will look bad. If you actually handled an Old Judge small card instead of pulling theories out of the air you would already know this. As for cost, the cards in the Old Judge packs cost more than the cigarettes. Elimination of these premium's costs was one reason for the formation of the ATC.

[tedzan]

Just giving this thread a friendly bump. Perhaps, we can continue on with the original topic intended here.
If you have some meaningful information to add to this subject, please by all means chime in.

Here is my favorite page in the A36 album. I'm an avid tennis fan. I've been playing tennis since 1960.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[S_GERACE]

Ted,
I have a world of respect for your vast knowledge on cards, but I disagree with you on the release date of these cards. I think that the Beecher card is a key to dating the set. Beecher played varsity football for Yale from 1884-1887. It is likely that the set was produced showing the champions from the prior year (as you stated earlier). Since 1887 was Beecher’s last year, it would be unlikely that he would have been chosen for inlusion for a set to be released in 1889. I’m not saying that the cards couldn’t have been issued in 1889 as well, just that they probably issued initially in 1888. Just my two cents.

[S_GERACE]

Actually not sure he was varsity as a freshman

[tedzan]

Scott

Yes, Harry Beecher played Football for Yale from 1884 - 1887. And, he graduated from Yale University in 1888. Which most likely means he did not play in 1888.

But then, there are some sports figures featured in the N162 set whose careers ended before 1887. Therefore, featuring Beecher in an 1889 issue is not unusual.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Joe_G.]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Scott

Yes, Harry Beecher played Football for Yale from 1884 - 1887. And, he graduated from Yale University in 1888. Which most likely means he did not play in 1888.

But then, there are some sports figures featured in the N162 set whose careers ended before 1887. Therefore, featuring Beecher in an 1889 issue is not unusual.

Hello Ted,

Nearly everyone is consenting that N162 cards could have been distributed into 1889 (myself, Henry, Mark, etc.). It doesn't appear anyone is debating this point. The point of contention is that you indicate N162s are to be considered an 1889 set, i.e. production began in 1889 whereas the rest of us believe, and in some cases have provided evidence, that the set began in 1888. The four 1888 redemption coupons that mention availability of the album is pretty concrete in my mind to dating the card's initial release to 1888 (cards precede the album). Personally, I'm 99.9% certain the cards were first offered in 1888 and about 50/50 on whether the cards extended into 1889. On the album side, 99.9% sure it was offered in both 1888 and 1889.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Joe_G.

Hello Ted,

Nearly everyone is consenting that N162 cards could have been distributed into 1889 (myself, Henry, Mark, etc.). It doesn't appear anyone is debating this point. The point of contention is that you indicate N162s are to be considered an 1889 set, i.e. production began in 1889 whereas the rest of us believe, and in some cases have provided evidence, that the set began in 1888. The four 1888 redemption coupons that mention availability of the album is pretty concrete in my mind to dating the card's initial release to 1888 (cards precede the album). Personally, I'm 99.9% certain the cards were first offered in 1888 and about 50/50 on whether the cards extended into 1889. On the album side, 99.9% sure it was offered in both 1888 and 1889.

Hi Joe

I guess at times, I can be a stubborn ole Greek. Anyhow, you have summarized this entire matter quite well here. Therefore, I defer to your judgement.
Don't mind me, at times I like to prompt some thought-provoking discussions (as I have in this thread). Well ole friend I'm satisfied. This case is closed.

Perhaps we will meet again at the National in 5 weeks.


.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.