T206 Doyle N.Y. +++ let's see your "Y" and "."

[tedzan]

Hi Pat

Pardon me, but I'm not sure I understand why you have identified the Larry Doyle card in your diagram.

How does it connect with the Joe Doyle card which we are discussing ?
Please explain.


TED Z
.

[Sean]

Ted, Pat is using Larry Doyle as an example of his theory. I think that his explanation makes perfect sense. It explains why a few Joe Doyle cards continued to be printed with that printer's mark with Sweet Caporal or Old Mill backs, while the majority of earlier printed Piedmont backed Doyles don't have the mark.

To summarize: there were multiple Joe Doyles on a sheet, therefore there were multiple plates featuring Joe Doyle. One of these plates had this remnant of the Nat'l designation on it, while the rest of the Joe Doyle plates didn't have the mark. So one of every eleven or so Doyles would bear this mark, while the others from the same sheet wouldn't have it.

Thus a few Piedmonts would have the mark, while the rest wouldn't. Then the Sweet Caporals would be printed, and one Joe Doyle per sheet would have the mark, while the others wouldn't. Same with the Old Mills.

I think that Pat is right, and he certainly answered my question.

[tedzan]

OK guys, here's the latest results of my 10-year survey on the Joe Doyle "printer's mark".




Printer's Mark....................l.... (remnant of "N" in Nat'L)



UPDATED in January 2018.


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........10..........126

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........134

Polar Bear..............4............29

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........15

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2

Unknown back.........0.............2
____________________________

Totals.................. 22 ........ 321



Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark = 22/343 = 6.4 %



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Pat

Pardon me, but I'm not sure I understand why you have identified the Larry Doyle card in your diagram.

How does it connect with the Joe Doyle card which we are discussing ?
Please explain.


TED Z
.

Hi Ted,

As Sean pointed out I was just using Larry Doyle from a known plate
scratch sheet layout as an example of why different backs would have
the flaw and why the % would be different.

There are a few different Joe Doyle flaws that were created when they
removed the NAT'L and each one would have come from a different
position on the sheet.

here are a couple other Joe Doyle flaws

There's this one where part of the Y and the period got removed along
with the NAT'L

Doyle Missing top right of Y and ..jpgDoyle Missing top right of Y and . - Copy.jpg

and this one missing the bottom of the Y so it looks like N.V. instead of
N.Y.

Black Background - Copy (5).jpg

all of the "N.V." examples also have the same darker blue spot
above his right arm here are two different Sov 350's examples

Doyle NV Sov 350-2.jpg Doyle NV Sov 350-1.jpg

each of the different Doyle flaws would have come from a different position on
the sheet.

[t206kid]

I'm 1 card away from finishing a Doyle back run. My Sovereign has the same dot. My Old Mill is missing part of the "Y" in New York and doesn't have a period after the "Y". 0/7 on the dot.

Edit: upon closer examination, my Sovereign is the 2nd one that Pat just posted haha.

[tedzan]

Hi Pat

What are you referring to by this......
"all of the "N.V." examples also have the same darker blue spot
above his right arm here are two different Sov 350's examples"


Incidentally, I currently have 5 cards of Joe Doyle (PIEDMONT 350, SWEET CAP 350, two SOVEREIGN 350, and a PIEDMONT 350 with the "printer's mark".
Furthermore, I recently have sold two SOVEREIGN 350 cards of Doyle. None of these 7 cards have the darker blue dot above his right arm. How often does
this dot appear on the Doyle cards ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Pat

What are you referring to by this......
"all of the "N.V." examples also have the same darker blue spot
above his right arm here are two different Sov 350's examples"


Incidentally, I currently have 5 cards of Joe Doyle (PIEDMONT 350, SWEET CAP 350, two SOVEREIGN 350, and a PIEDMONT 350 with the "printer's mark".
Furthermore, I recently have sold two SOVEREIGN 350 cards of Doyle. None of these 7 cards have the darker blue dot above his right arm. How often does
this dot appear on the Doyle cards ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

I haven't done a data sheet on the N.V. variation but when I get a
chance I will and I'll post it here.

The darker blue spot is the one I've circled it's on all of the N.V. variations
that I've seen so far.

I just did a quick check and found a third sovereign 350 and a SC350/30
N.V. variation out of the first ten Doyle's I looked at and both have the dark
blue spot.

Doyle NV Sov 350-3.jpgDoyle NV Sov-3.jpg

Doyle NV SC350-30.jpgDoyle NV SC350-30 - Copy.jpg

[tedzan]

Thanks Pat

So, the dark spot appears only on Joe Doyle cards with the N. V. error in the caption.


TED Z
.

[t206kid]

If anyone has a Joe Doyle EPDG please PM me. Love to finish my back run.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thanks Pat

So, the dark spot appears only on Joe Doyle cards with the N. V. error in the caption.


TED Z
.

That's correct Ted.

I did some research on the N.V. and these are the numbers I came up
with. The ones with an asterisk I didn't account any cards that might
have been sold more than once because it would take to long to
go through several pages and try and pick those out.


When I have time I'll do the numbers on the other variations but
from what I saw doing the research on this one it shows up the
least of all of them.

0.jpg
Black Background - Copy - Copy - Copy (3).jpg